[00:00:03] EUGENE ESCOBAR: ALL RIGHT. THE TIME IS 6:02, AND THIS WILL START OUR PRE-COUNCIL MEETING. [A.CALL TO ORDER-MAYOR] TODAY IS TUESDAY OCTOBER 13, 2026. AND I'LL CALL TO ORDER. MS, DAVID-GRAVES IS NOT HERE. MISS TODD? CHRISTINA TODD: HERE. EUGENE ESCOBAR: MR. JOHNSON'S NOT HERE. MR. WASHINGTON? BRYAN WASHINGTON: HERE. EUGENE ESCOBAR: MR. RUTLEDGE? JAISEN RUTLEDGE: HERE. EUGENE ESCOBAR: MR. DEFFIBAUGH? STEVE DEFFIBAUGH: HERE. EUGENE ESCOBAR: AND MR. LONG IS NOT HERE. WE HAVE A QUORUM. THIS WILL TAKE US TO OUR WORK SESSION AGENDA 2026-231, [C.WORK SESSION AGENDA] PRESENTATION DISCUSSION AND UPDATE TO THE CITY COUNCIL REGARDING THE PROPOSED INITIATIVE OF PILOT PLASTIC ROADWAY TECHNOLOGY PROGRAM BY THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT ARLINGTON, SOLID WASTE INSTITUTE FOR SUSTAINABILITY, AND PROPOSE A PILOT PROJECT FOR THE CITY OF PRINCETON, PRESENTED BY RIFAT. THANK YOU. RIFAT ALAM: GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. THIS ITEM WOULD BE CO-PRESENTED BY DR. SAHADAT HOSSAIN. DR HOSSAIN FROM UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT ARLINGTON, HAS BEEN WORKING ON THIS PILOT TECHNOLOGY FOR A WHILE. THIS IS A WORK SESSION ITEM ONLY. SO NO ACTION IS BEING REQUESTED BY CITY COUNCIL TONIGHT. BUT THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT IS EXPLORING POSSIBLE OPTIONS TO FIND A PATHWAY, AND TO IMPLEMENT THIS AS A POSSIBLE PILOT PROGRAM FOR ONE OF OUR CITY STREETS. AND WE ARE GOING TO TALK MORE ABOUT OUR REVISED ROADWAY MANAGEMENT PLAN IN THE NEXT WORK SESSION. WHAT THIS ITEM WOULD GIVE YOU SOME INSIGHT IS HIS RECENT WORK, WHICH HE HAS BEEN CONDUCTING IN THIS METROPLEX AND NATIONWIDE AS WELL AS INTERNATIONALLY. IT'S AN INNOVATIVE APPROACH TO HAVE A PLASTIC INFUSED ROAD, WHICH HAS A POTENTIAL TO GIVE A BETTER ROAD. WITH FURTHER DUE, I'M GOING TO INVITE DR. HOSSAIN TO TALK MORE ABOUT THAT. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: OK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, RIFAT, FOR THE NICE INTRODUCTION. AND THANK YOU, EVERYBODY, FOR GIVING ME TIME AND OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT PLASTIC ROAD. SO BEFORE I GET INTO THE PRESENTATION, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT WHY WE ARE THINKING ABOUT PLASTIC ROAD. IN TEXAS AND GLOBALLY, THERE IS A LOT OF ISSUES WITH THE POTHOLES AND CRACKS IN THE ROAD. ON THE SAME TIME, GLOBALLY, PLASTIC WASTE GENERATION IS ALSO SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASING, INCLUDING TEXAS. NOW BECAUSE OF THE TIME, I WILL START HERE. WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE RECYCLING MOST OF THE PLASTIC THAT IS GENERATED IN OUR WASTE STREAM, BUT WE END UP RECYCLING ONLY 10% OF IT. AND MOST OTHER GOES TO LANDFILLING. IN 2018, CHINA PUT A BAN. ALL THE PLASTIC THAT WE USED TO RECYCLE IN AMERICA USED TO GO TO CHINA. IN 2018, CHINA PUT A BAN ON IMPORTING PLASTIC FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, INCLUDING AMERICA. IT WAS AN $11 BILLION INDUSTRY. 2019, NPR INTERVIEWED ME AND ASKED ME HOW WE CAN REUSE THE PLASTIC FOR OUR OWN INFRASTRUCTURE. SO AT THAT TIME, AND OUR INFRASTRUCTURE MEANS POTHOLES AND CRACKED ROADS. SO THINKING ABOUT THIS, I WENT AND TALKED TO TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION IN DALLAS. WHEN I TALKED TO THEM, THEY INITIALLY WAS RELUCTANT THAT THEY WANTED TO TRY SOMETHING. BUT LOOKING AT THEIR ROAD CONDITION, I GAVE THEM AN IDEA THAT THERE IS A WAY WE CAN INCORPORATE THIS ROAD TO FIX THE POTHOLES AND OTHERS. AND THIS IS BASICALLY WE HAVE PROBLEM WITH THE ROAD, AND WE ALSO HAVE PROBLEM WITH THE PLASTIC, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A MARKET. COMBINING THESE TWO, IT BASICALLY SOLVES ONE PROBLEM USING ANOTHER PROBLEM. SO PLASTIC IS A PROBLEM. OUR ROAD CRACK IS A PROBLEM. WE ARE USING PLASTIC TO FIX OUR ROAD. NOW WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PLASTIC, THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF PLASTIC. PLASTIC CAN BE HDPE, LDPE, DIFFERENT TYPE. WHICH ONE IS GOING TO BE WORKING? SO GLOBALLY AFRICA, INDIA, AND SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES USED THIS PLASTIC BEFORE, AND THEY USED MIXED PLASTIC. AND THEY GOT MIXED RESULTS. SO WHAT WE DID, INSTEAD OF USING MIXED PLASTIC, WE USED INDIVIDUAL COMPONENTS OF PLASTIC, LIKE LDPE, HDPE, AND WE TESTED WITH DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS. AND WE STARTED WORKING ON THIS. WE WENT TO TXDOT, AND THEN TXDOT SAID, OK, WE CAN GIVE YOU MONEY TO DO THE FEASIBILITY STUDY JUST TO CHECK IF IT WORKS IN THE LAB. DURING COVID TIME, ALL THESE TESTS, WE DID IT DURING THE COVID TIME. WE DID WORK IN THE LAB. AND THIS WAS THE RESULT. SO WHEN WE SHOWED THIS PRESENTATION TO TEX THE RIGHTS, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, [00:05:01] THE RIGHT SAMPLE IS THE PLASTIC MIXED WITH ASPHALT. THE LEFT ONE IS THE CONTROL, WHICH IS THE REGULAR ASPHALT MIX THAT WE USE IN THE CONSTRUCTION NOW. SO WHEN I SHOW THIS RESULT TO TXDOT, TXDOT SAID, IT'S VERY EASY TO MAKE THEM WORK IN THE LAB. CAN YOU PUT IT IN THE GROUND? IS IT GOING TO WORK IN THE ACTUAL FIELD CONDITION? SO WITH THAT, THERE WAS ANOTHER CONCERN. IF WE PUT THIS PLASTIC ROAD-- HOUSTON, CORPUS CHRISTI IS EXPERIENCING A LOT OF FLOODING. UNDER THE FLOODING CONDITION, IF THE ROAD IS GOING TO WORK, WE TESTED FOR THAT AND IT SHOWS THAT IT WORKS UNDER THE FLOODING CONDITION ALSO. SO THE FIRST PROJECT THAT WE IMPLEMENTED WAS IN ARLINGTON, UT ARLINGTON CAMPUS. AND THIS WAS THE PARKING LOT WITH LOT OF POTHOLES AND CRACKS. AND THIS WAS ONE OF THE WORST ROADS, THE PARKING ROAD IN OUR CAMPUS. AND WE USED, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, WE USE THE HDPE PLASTIC TO FIX THIS. AND WE DID THAT ROAD CONSTRUCTION IN 2023. AFTER THREE YEARS, WHEN WE WENT BACK THERE, THE ROAD HAS ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM. AND PARKING LOT IS WORSE THAN THE REGULAR ROAD BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT OF DEAD LOAD SITTING IN THE PARKING LOT. SO WHEN IT WORKED IN THE PARKING LOT, I WAS CONFIDENT THAT IT'S GOING TO WORK IN THE REGULAR ROAD ALSO. THIS IS THE MAIN PROJECT THAT WE DID IN THE STATE HIGHWAY 205, BACK IN LAST MAY 2025. THIS WAS A ONE-MILE SECTION ROAD AND WE DID THE CONSTRUCTION AT NIGHT WITH THE PLASTIC MIX. THIS IS THE SECTION HERE. DURING THE CONSTRUCTION, WE COLLECTED SAMPLES TO CHECK THE RELIABILITY OF THE ROAD MIX AND THE PERFORMANCE OF IT, AND TO CHECK IF IT IS SATISFYING THE TXDOT SPECIFICATION. WE DID ALL THE TESTS AND WE FOUND THAT EVERYTHING THAT'S REQUIRED FOR TXDOT, IT WAS SATISFYING EVERYTHING. AND ONCE WE PUT IT THERE, THERE WAS A LOT OF NEWS MEDIA THAT COVERED IT-- ABC, NBC, FOX NEWS, EVERYBODY. AND THIS IS A PDF FILE. SO I CANNOT PLAY THE VIDEO. BUT I HAVE PROVIDED THE VIDEO FOR YOU INFORMATION. AFTER 11 MONTHS, WE DID EXTENSIVE TESTING. WE ARE MONITORING THE ROAD. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE VERY HIGH VOLUME ROADS, AND WE DID THE FIRST ONE MILE SECTION. THE ROAD HAS ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM. THE ROAD IS WORKING PERFECTLY. FOR THE ROAD CONSTRUCTION, IF SOME OF YOU ARE HERE IN THE TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT, IF YOU BUILD A NEW ROAD, IF THERE IS ANY CRACK, THE FIRST SIGN YOU WILL SEE WITHIN SIX MONTHS. IF IT GOES THROUGH FIRST CYCLE IN SECOND YEAR, IF THERE IS NO CRACK, THAT MEANS THE ROAD IS GOING TO PERFORM BETTER. FIRST SIX MONTH ONE YEAR, WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM. AND THIS IS A VERY HIGH-VOLUME TRAFFIC LOAD CONDITION. ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE LANE THAT WE FIXED ARE CONSTRUCTED WITH PLASTIC NEXT TO THE OTHER LANE, THEY BUILD IT WITH THE REGULAR CONVENTIONAL ASPHALT DESIGN. THERE IS A 11-FOOT LONG CRACK IN THE CONVENTIONAL MIXED DESIGN COMPARED TO THE PLASTIC ROAD THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THAT ROAD SECTION. SO THIS IS SIDE BY SIDE, ONE WITH PLASTIC, ONE WITHOUT PLASTIC. WITH PLASTIC, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CRACK OR POTHOLE YET. NOW ONCE WE DID THIS, WE ALSO DID IT IN SOME INTERNATIONAL PROJECT. ONE OF THIS IS IN BANGLADESH. I JUST WANTED TO SHOW YOU THIS ROAD, WHEN WE BUILD IT, I THOUGHT IT WAS A LOW-VOLUME ROAD, BUT IT ENDED UP BEING ONE OF THE VERY BUSY ROADS. AND IT'S BASICALLY BETWEEN TWO PORTS, SO A LOT OF HEAVY-DUTY TRAFFIC WAS GOING THROUGH THIS. AND WE WOULD BUILD THIS ROAD IN BACK IN 2023. JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE, WHAT ABOUT THE ALLOWABLE LOAD? THE ROAD WAS DESIGNED FOR THE TRACKS WERE BASICALLY CARRYING DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF LOAD. SO THIS IS ONE OF THE CONDITIONS THAT IT'S AS A RESEARCHER COMMITTING SUICIDE TO PUT A PLASTIC ROAD IN A CONDITION LIKE THIS. BUT EVEN AFTER THREE YEARS OF MONITORING, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CRACK EVEN WHEN IT IS EXCEEDING THE LOAD CONDITION. THIS IS THE CONSTRUCTED ROAD NOW. IN BANGLADESH, WE DID ONE OF THE MAJOR CONSIDERATIONS WE HAD THAT WE DESIGNED THIS ROAD FOR FLOODING CONDITION, BUT WE ENDED UP HAVING ONE OF THE WORST TEMP SUMMER IN BANGLADESH IN 2024. IF YOU LOOK AT THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ROAD, THIS WAS THE TYPICAL CONVENTIONAL ASPHALT MIX. DUE TO THE TEMPERATURE WHEN TRUCK WAS GOING OR CAR WAS GOING OVER THE ROAD, YOU CAN SEE THE BITUMEN WAS GOING ALONG IN THE WHEEL. AT THE SAME TIME, THE ROAD ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE IS A PLASTIC ROAD SECTION. WITHIN THAT TEMPERATURE, THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM. [00:10:01] I HAD NO DOUBT THERE WILL BE PROBLEM BECAUSE IF IT WORKS IN TEXAS, IT WILL WORK IN ANY OTHER PLACE BECAUSE TEXAS IN DURING SUMMER CAN BE REALLY HOT. SO THE IDEA THAT, IF WE USE THE PLASTIC IN OUR BITUMEN MIX OR ASPHALT MIX, IT'S GOING TO MAKE ROAD LIFE BETTER. IT IS GOING TO CRACK LESS AND IT'S GOING TO HAVE LESS POTHOLES. IT WAS THEORY BEFORE. NOW BASED ON ALL THE ROAD WE ARE CONSTRUCTING, WE ARE NOW POSITIVE THAT THIS WORKS. JUST TO GIVE YOU ANOTHER IDEA OF INTERNATIONAL PROJECT, WE JUST SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH SAUDI ARABIA. WE ARE GOING TO BUILD TWO SECTIONS, ONE IN RIYADH, AND ONE IN JEDDAH WITH THE PLASTIC REMIX. I'M NOT SURE WHETHER I CAN GO THERE WITHIN THE CURRENT POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT THERE, BUT WE HAVE A PROJECT THERE THAT WE ARE GOING TO BUILD A PLASTIC ROAD THERE. WE ARE BUILDING A ROAD IN DALLAS. WE ARE BUILDING ANOTHER ONE IN AMARILLO, TXDOT FOR AMARILLO. NOW THE QUESTION IS WHY WE GO FROM DALLAS TO AMARILLO? AMARILLO IS THE COLDEST PART OF TEXAS. AND IT SNOWS A LOT. SO I KEEP GETTING A LOT OF CALLS FROM THE WHOLE REASON THAT YOUR ROAD IS WORKING IN THE HOT WEATHER. CAN IT WORK IN THE COLD ENVIRONMENT? WE TESTED IN OUR LAB. WE FEEL LIKE IT'S GOING TO WORK, BUT WE ARE GOING TO DO THE CONSTRUCTION. OUR EXPECTED CONSTRUCTION FOR THE AMARILLO ROAD IS MID NOVEMBER THIS YEAR, NEXT MONTH. OK, SO WE ARE VERY CONFIDENT THAT THIS MIX IS GOING TO HELP REDUCE THE CRACKS, REDUCE THE POTHOLES, AND IN THE LONG RUN, MAINTENANCE COST IS GOING TO GO DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY. AND [INAUDIBLE] MATERIAL COST IS EITHER EQUAL OR LESS THAN THE REGULAR CONSTRUCTION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION. EUGENE ESCOBAR: THANK YOU. RIFAT ALAM: SO HONORABLE COUNCIL, THE PATH FROM TODAY IS IF THIS IS AN OPTION THAT COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO EXPLORE, WE ARE GOING TO FURTHER HAVE MORE DISCUSSION WITH DR. HOSSAIN AND HIS TEAM, AND OUR PLAN IS TO IMPLEMENT THIS AS A PILOT PROJECT WITH COUNCIL APPROVAL FOR ONE OF OUR ROADS. SO WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT IS I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE CLARIFY. THE ROAD ITSELF, THIS IS GOING TO BE EXACTLY AS A REGULAR ASPHALT ROAD. HE AND HIS TEAM IS GOING TO PROVIDE THE RESEARCH EXPERTISE, BASICALLY HIS SERVICE. TYPICALLY, HIS TEAM WOULD WORK DIRECTLY WITH THE ASPHALT PLANT TO MAKE SURE THE RECIPE OF THE ASPHALT AND THE MATERIAL ITSELF IS ADDED DIRECTLY TO THE PLANT. BUT JUST TO CONSTRUCT THE ROAD ITSELF, IT IS GOING TO BE A VERY REGULAR CONSTRUCTION WITH A REGULAR ASPHALT CONTRACTOR WHO IS GOING TO BUILD THAT. SO BEST CASE SCENARIO, WE CAN GET A BETTER ROAD IF THE ROAD PERFORMS AS INTENDED BY THE PLASTIC MIX ADDED, WORST-CASE SCENARIO, WE ONLY GET A REGULAR ASPHALT, WHICH CAN STILL BE SUBJECTED TO CRACK ITSELF. IF THE GENERAL SENSE FROM THE COUNCIL IS THIS IS SOMETHING COUNCIL IS INTERESTED, THEN WE ARE GOING TO GO BACK, HAVE THE PILOT PROJECT READY, AND THIS WILL COME IN FRONT OF COUNCIL AS AN AGENDA ITEM FOR FURTHER APPROVAL AND CONSIDERATION. EUGENE ESCOBAR: IS THERE A COST SAVINGS GOING THIS WAY? RIFAT ALAM: YES, THERE WILL BE A COST ASSOCIATED TO HAVE THE SERVICE PROVIDED BY DR. HOSSAIN. SO THAT COST IS SEPARATE FROM THE COST OF THE ROAD ITSELF. SO THE CITY WOULD BE PAYING FOR THE COST OF BASICALLY HIS TEAM'S RESEARCH STUDY, THE COST OF THE PLASTIC MATERIAL ITSELF, ALMOST LIKE A CONSULTING SERVICE. DAVID HALL: MAYOR, I THOUGHT, IF I COULD, I THOUGHT I HEARD YOU ASK IF THERE WAS A COST SAVINGS? EUGENE ESCOBAR: YEAH DAVID HALL: OK. I THINK I DON'T KNOW IF RIFAT HEARD THAT. HE WAS EXPLAINING THAT THERE IS A COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT. ONE COULD ARGUE THAT THERE IS A LONG-TERM COST SAVINGS THROUGH THE EXTENSION OF THE USEFUL LIFE OF THE ROAD, BUT I'D RATHER-- RIFAT ALAM: MY APOLOGY. YES, I DID MISS THAT. SO YES, IN LONG TERM, WE ARE LOOKING AT AN ASPHALT ROAD WHICH WOULD HAVE LESS MAINTENANCE OVER THE LIFE CYCLE. SO YES, AND I'LL ASK DR. HOSSAIN TO SPEAK MORE ON THAT. BUT IS THERE A WAY TO HAVE A COST SAVINGS COMPARISON AS PART OF THAT SERVICE? SAHADAT HOSSAIN: YES, YEAH. THIS IS A VERY GOOD QUESTION. AND I KEEP GETTING THIS QUESTION A LOT BECAUSE THE FIRST THING THEY WILL ASK, IS IT GOING TO SAVE THE COST? THERE ARE TWO COSTS. ONE DURING THE CONSTRUCTION, YOU COMPARE THE PRICE OF BITUMEN BECAUSE WE ARE REPLACING BITUMEN WITH THE PLASTIC. SO BITUMEN COST IS USUALLY ALWAYS HIGHER THAN PLASTIC. SO THERE IS A COST SAVING THERE. NOT MUCH, BUT THERE IS A COST SAVING THERE. [00:15:02] BUT IF YOU DO THE FIVE-YEAR, 10-YEAR LIFE CYCLE ANALYSIS OF THE ROAD, IT'S GOING TO SAVE MINIMUM 50% TO 70%, BASED ON ALL THE EXPERIENCE WE HAVE IN THE PREVIOUS ROAD CONSTRUCTION. SO PART OF THIS, WE ARE GOING TO DO THE CONSTRUCTION AND WE ARE GOING TO DO THE PERFORMANCE EVALUATION ALSO. WE ARE NOT GOING TO BUILD AND GO AWAY. THAT WE BUILD IT, IT'S DONE. WE ARE GOING TO MONITOR THE PERFORMANCE TO GIVE YOU THE DATA AND I'M CONFIDENT IT'S GOING TO WORK. MY CONFIDENCE DOESN'T MATTER IF IT DOESN'T WORK IN THE FIELD. SO I'M GOING TO DO THE PERFORMANCE EVALUATION, GIVE YOU THE REPORT. WHATEVER WE EXPECTED, DID IT MEET THE EXPECTATION? AND WE'LL DO THE ANALYSIS AS PART OF THIS PROJECT FOR THE LIFE CYCLE COST ANALYSIS, SO THAT YOU WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE COST SAVING PER MILE SECTION BUILT ON ANY CITIES OF THIS CITY. EUGENE ESCOBAR: AND WHAT IS THE WARRANTY ON THIS? SO LET'S JUST SAY IT LASTS TWO YEARS. AND THEN IT KIND OF NEEDS TO BE TAKEN BACK UP BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK FOR WHATEVER REASONS HERE, FOR WHETHER IT'S THE SUB-BASING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT COMING UP. BECAUSE I MEAN, WE HAD A LOT OF THOSE ISSUES HERE IN THE CITY. HOW DO WE SOLVE FOR THOSE ISSUES? RIFAT ALAM: I CAN SPEAK ON THAT. SO FOR THE WARRANTY ITSELF, IT WOULD BE TREATED AS ANY REGULAR ROADWAY PROJECT. SO THINK OF IT LIKE A REGULAR ASPHALT ROAD BEING BUILT BY A CONTRACTOR. THEY WOULD STILL BE SUBJECTED TO THE SAME STANDARD, CITY STANDARD, THE SAME STANDARD OPERATING PROCESS. SO WE WOULD ASK THEM FOR THE TYPICAL PERFORMANCE AND MAINTENANCE BOND. SO TYPICALLY, THAT WOULD BE TWO YEARS. EUGENE ESCOBAR: AND THAT'S DURING THE PILOT PROGRAM TOO, AS WELL? BECAUSE I KNOW THE PILOT IS A TEST PROGRAM. CORRECT? RIFAT ALAM: SO THE PERFORMANCE AND MAINTENANCE BOND WOULD BE TIED TO THE PERFORMANCE OF THE ROAD WITH THE CONTRACTOR. AND FOR PILOT PROGRAM ITSELF, TYPICALLY WHAT WE HAVE SEEN, WE HAVE NOT SEEN A CASE WHERE THE CONTRACTOR IS OPPOSED TO HAVING THE TYPICAL TWO-YEAR MAINTENANCE BOND, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE ASKING. EUGENE ESCOBAR: MR RUTLEDGE? JAISEN RUTLEDGE: YEAH. SO LOOKING AT YOUR SLIDE HERE ON YOUR DECK, ON SLIDE 12, IT COVERS THE PERFORMANCE TEST, SPECIFICALLY MOISTURE SUSCEPTIBILITY. AND I SEE HERE IN THIS GRAPH AT THE BOTTOM RIGHT-HAND SIDE, IT SHOWS THE DIFFERENT TYPE-- I'M ASSUMING THESE ARE PLASTIC MIXTURES, RIGHT, AND THE PERFORMANCE THAT'S RELATED TO THOSE. HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT DETERMINING? IS THERE A SPECIFIC TYPE THAT WILL BE USED FOR OUR ROADS, OR YOU DETERMINE THAT BASED OFF OF THE LOCATION, THE CLIMATE, SO ON, AND SO FORTH? HOW DO YOU DETERMINE THAT? SAHADAT HOSSAIN: EXCELLENT QUESTION. SO THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT TYPE OF PLASTICS, RIGHT? SO WHICH TYPE OF PLASTIC WE'RE GOING TO USE? THAT'S THE QUESTION, RIGHT? SO IN USA WE HAVE HDPE, LDPE, ALL OF THEM AVAILABLE. BASED ON OUR TESTING, [INAUDIBLE] TYPE DOESN'T WORK AT ALL. SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO USE THEM. HDPE AND LDPE BOTH WORKS. NOW HDPE IS READILY AVAILABLE IN THE MARKET. LDPE, WHICH IS BASICALLY ONE-TIME USE PLASTIC BAG, ARE CONSIDERED NON-RECYCLABLE. WE ALSO TESTED CAN WE MAKE IT WORK. YES. SO LDPE PLASTIC, EVEN THOUGH IT'S CONSIDERED NON-RECYCLABLE, IT WORKS IN THE ROAD. SO THAT MEANS WE ARE MAKING A NON-RECYCLABLE PLASTIC INTO RECYCLED PLASTIC. SO IF YOU GO BACK TO THE SOUTH ASIAN COUNTRIES AND AFRICAN COUNTRIES, HDPE PLASTIC, YOU CANNOT GET IT. THEY ARE EXPENSIVE. THERE IS A MARKET FOR IT. SO ONLY AVAILABLE MATERIAL IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD IS LDPE. BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO RECYCLE THEM. SO IT WILL PURELY DEPEND ON THE AVAILABILITY OF THE MATERIAL. SO WHATEVER THE MATERIAL IS AVAILABLE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN REUSE THEM IN A WAY THAT'S USED FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: IF WE WERE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, THIS IS PROBABLY A QUESTION FOR YOU, RIFAT, I KNOW THAT WE'RE KIND OF INVESTIGATING THIS. BUT IF WE WERE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, WE WOULD PROBABLY GET INTO A POSITION WHERE WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE PRIOR TO ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTATION, RIGHT? BECAUSE AS I LOOK AT THIS GRAPH, IF I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY, IT SEEMS THAT THE LDPE PLUS 5% PP, IS THAT THE HIGHEST-PERFORMING MIX OF PLASTIC FOR ROADS? SAHADAT HOSSAIN: WHICH ONE IS THAT? GO BACK TO THAT. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: SO IT'S ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, THE GRAPH AT THE BOTTOM. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: THIS ONE? JAISEN RUTLEDGE: YES. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: OK. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: THE CHART AT THE BOTTOM RIGHT. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: VERY GOOD QUESTION. SO, ONLY ONE OF THE COMBINATIONS I SHOWED HERE, THIS WAS LIKE BACK IN 2021. AFTER THAT, WE DID MANY COMBINATIONS. THIS IS UNDER THE WATER. SO IF IT IS UNDERWATER, WHICH ARE THE COMBINATION IS GOING TO WORK? IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, SOME OF OUR COMBINATIONS IS GONE. IT HAS TO BE ABOVE TSR 0.7. SO BASED ON THIS TEST, ANYTIME WE DO IT FOR A CITY, EVEN BEFORE WE HAVE A COMBINATION, WE WILL TEST USING THE LOCAL CONDITION TO CHECK WHERE EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY NOT HAVE FLOODING, [00:20:03] WE'LL ALSO CHECK FOR FLOODING. SO WHEN YOU GO FOR THE FLOODING, ALL THE COMBINATIONS DOESN'T WORK. SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THE COMBINATION THAT WORKS FOR A GIVEN GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION, GIVEN CITY. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: HOW LONG HAS THIS-- AND I MIGHT HAVE MISSED THIS. HOW LONG HAS THIS TECHNOLOGY BEEN USED? SAHADAT HOSSAIN: EXCELLENT QUESTION. OUTSIDE THE USA, SINCE 2001. IN INDIA, RIGHT NOW THEY BUILD AROUND 1,000 KILOMETER ROAD. BUT IN INDIA THEY JUST GO AND STARTED USING. THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY SPECIFICATIONS. THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO SATISFY THE ENVIRONMENTAL REQUIREMENT. BUT IN USA, EVEN BEFORE PUT ONE POUND PLASTIC ON THE ROAD, WE HAVE TO DO ALL THE TESTS. AND ONE OF THE QUESTION PEOPLE KEEP ASKING, WHAT ABOUT THE MICROPLASTICS LEACHING? IN INDIA IT DOESN'T MATTER. HERE IT MATTERS. SO I HAVE TO CHECK IF THERE IS ANY MICROPLASTIC LEACHING OUT OF THE ROAD. BECAUSE THE ROAD IS CRACKING LESS AND THE WAY WE DO THE CONSTRUCTION, WE HEAT UP THE AGGREGATE, THEN WE ADD THE PLASTIC. PLASTIC ADDED A COATING AROUND THE AGGREGATE, THEN WE ADD THE BITUMEN. SO IF YOU GO SEE A PLASTIC ROAD, YOU CANNOT SEE ANY PLASTIC. IT'S LIKE ANY OTHER ROAD. BECAUSE THERE IS LESS CRACK, BECAUSE WATER CANNOT PENETRATE, THERE IS NO MICROPLASTIC LEACHING. WE DID THE TEST IN THE LAB AND WE CHECKED THE DATA IN THE FIELD FOR BANGLADESH AND OTHER PLACES. THERE IS NO MICROPLASTIC LEACHING. SO IN USA, THERE ARE OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, SOME OF THEM ARE USING FOR FIVE OR SIX YEARS. BUT THEY USE MIXED PLASTIC. OURS IS THE ONLY COMPREHENSIVE STUDY WHERE YOU WENT INDIVIDUAL COMPONENT BY COMPONENT, AND IT'S WORKING. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: THANK YOU. RIFAT ALAM: AND COUNCIL MEMBER, THE ACTUAL MATERIAL THAT DR. HOSSAIN WOULD BE USING, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU HAVE ANY THOSE [INAUDIBLE] SAMPLES, BUT-- SAHADAT HOSSAIN: YES. RIFAT ALAM: --IT LOOKS LIKE A PLASTIC CHIP. SO HIS TEAM WOULD BE PROVIDING THE SERVICE AND COST OF THAT PLASTIC MATERIAL ITSELF. AND THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: IF YOU LOOK AT THE RIGHT SIDE, THAT IS WHAT THE PLASTIC LOOKS LIKE. WE WILL NOT BE USING PLASTIC DIRECTLY. WE SHRED THEM INTO SMALL PIECES. SO THAT WHEN YOU GO TO THE PLANT, THE MAIN CHALLENGE FOR THIS WAS, DO WE NEED TO CHANGE ANY EQUIPMENT IN THE PLANT. DO WE NEED TO CHANGE ANY COMPACTOR DURING THE COMPACTION? WE MADE SURE WE DON'T DO ANY CHANGES DURING THE CONSTRUCTION OR PLANNED PRODUCTION. THAT REDUCED THE COST SIGNIFICANTLY. BECAUSE NEW TECHNOLOGY COMES WITH ADDITIONAL COST. WE ELIMINATED ALL THE ADDITIONAL COSTS. EUGENE ESCOBAR: MS. TODD? CHRISTINA TODD: I UNDERSTAND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE MICROPLASTICS AND LOOKING TO NOT HAVE THEM, SO DOES THAT MEAN YOU'VE DONE ABRASION-INDUCED, THE STUDIES ON THE ABRASION? SAHADAT HOSSAIN: EXCELLENT QUESTION. WE HAVE ENGINEERS SITTING HERE. I'M NOT SURE. BUT YES, THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION. I WILL INVITE YOU GUYS TO COME TO OUR LAB AND SEE HOW WE ARE DOING THE OPERATION. WE HAVE A HAMBURG TEST WHERE THAT'S WHAT THE VIDEO WAS. BUT THE VIDEO, WE CANNOT SHOW. THERE IS A WHEEL KEEPS GOING AROUND UNDERWATER. SO WHAT ABOUT THE ABRASION IS TAKING PLACE? WE COLLECT THE WATER SAMPLE FROM THAT WATER. SO WE ARE SIMULATING ALMOST 10 YEARS OF LIFE OF THE ROAD IN THAT LAB SETTING. AND WE COLLECT THE WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO AND COLLECT THE WATER FROM THERE. SO ANY MICROPLASTIC THAT YOU SEE IN THE LIVE SETTING IS GOING TO BE A LOT LESS IN THE FIELD COMPARED TO THE LAB, BECAUSE IN THE LAB, WE ARE CREATING THE WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO. AND THAT MICROPLASTIC THAT WE GOT IN THE LAB SCENARIO IS 10% OF THE ALLOWABLE LIMIT. SO WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION HAS A LIMIT OF MICROPLASTIC THAT CAN BE IN THE WATER. IT'S ONLY 10% OF THAT. NOW WE DID SOME TESTING IN THE ACTUAL FIELD CONDITION WITH PLASTIC ROAD. WE TAKE THE WATER SAMPLE. WE FOUND MICROPLASTIC. BUT NOW YOU CAN FIND OUT THE SOURCE OF MICROPLASTIC USING SOME INFRARED TECHNOLOGY. ALL THOSE MICROPLASTICS WERE FROM TIRE EROSION. EVEN IF THERE IS NOT A PLASTIC ROAD IN A REGULAR ROAD, YOU COLLECT WATER. THERE WILL BE A LOT OF MICROPLASTIC. THOSE COMES FROM TIRE EROSION. NONE OF THEM, WE FOUND THE TRACE ELEMENT FROM THE PLASTIC ROAD CONSTRUCTION. BECAUSE TIRE HDPE AND THE HDPE THAT WE USE, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT WAVELENGTH. SO IN THE FIELD CONDITION AND IN THE LAB CONDITION, NO MICROPLASTICS SO FAR. CHRISTINA TODD: OK. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: I DIDN'T EXPECT THAT QUESTION, BUT AN EXCELLENT QUESTION. CHRISTINA TODD: WELL, YOU WENT INTO IT, BECAUSE MY NEXT QUESTION WAS, WHAT'S THE EXTENT OF THE STUDY THAT YOU DO FOR THAT. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: YES, YES. SO WE HAVE TO SIMULATE THE WORST CONDITION. OTHERWISE, WE WON'T GET THE SAMPLE THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR. I NEED TO KNOW WHAT IS THE WORST SCENARIO. I CANNOT TELL PEOPLE TO USE SOMETHING WHICH I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IS GOING TO WORK. SO I NEED TO SIMULATE. [00:25:02] WHEN I WENT TO EUROPE FOR ALL THE PRESENTATION, THEY DON'T ASK ABOUT ANYTHING. THEY HAVE ONLY ONE QUESTION, MICROPLASTIC. AND IN THE BEGINNING, I DIDN'T HAVE THE ANSWER. SO I CAME BACK AND PUT ONE PHD STUDENT TO WORK, AND WE DID EXTENSIVE STUDY. THEN WE COME UP WITH A CONCLUSION. YES, WE KNOW THAT IT'S GOING TO BE SAFE. THERE IS NO ISSUE WITH MICROPLASTIC. CHRISTINA TODD: HAS THE TECQ WEIGHED IN ON THE APPROVAL OF USAGE FOR THESE MATERIALS? SAHADAT HOSSAIN: I LOVE THIS QUESTION. YOU KNOW THE VIDEO, I WANTED TO SHOW? TCEQ SAW THE VIDEO. SO TCEQ HAS THE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP. THEY CALLED ME. AND SAID, DR. HOSSAIN, WE LOOKED AT YOUR ROAD TECHNOLOGY. WE WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT IT. SO THEY BASICALLY DID A WEBINAR AND THEY ASKED ME TO SPEAK IN THAT WEBINAR FOR ONE HOUR. SO IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE WITH 30 MINUTES PRESENTATION AND 30 MINUTES QUESTION ANSWERING. THAT WEBINAR WENT FOR 2 AND 1/2 HOURS. AFTER A 45-MINUTE PRESENTATION, THERE WERE HUNDREDS OF QUESTIONS, INCLUDING ONE OF THE STATE CONGRESSMAN'S OFFICE MEMBER WAS SITTING THERE. SO AFTER THE PRESENTATION, THEIR POINT IS, WE ARE VERY CONFIDENT AND WE WILL VOUCH FOR THIS, THAT PLASTIC ROAD SHOULD BE USED. NOW, THERE IS A DISCUSSION GOING ON IN THE NEXT MEETING IN JANUARY IN TEXAS LEGISLATION. THEY MAY PUT AN ITEM THAT RECYCLING PLASTIC SHOULD BE USED FOR THE ROAD CONSTRUCTION. SO THERE IS A DISCUSSION GOING ON BY ONE OF THE RECYCLING COMMUNITY SUPPORTED BY TCEQ. SO YES, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, DOES TCEQ SUPPORT THIS? YES AND THEY EVEN ASKED ME TO APPLY FOR AN AWARD THAT ONE OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL AWARDS, LEADERSHIP AWARD USING THIS TECHNOLOGY. EUGENE ESCOBAR: ALL RIGHT, I THINK THAT, BUT YOU NEED DIRECTION TO SEE IF YOU WANT TO KEEP LOOKING INTO THIS OR NOT FROM COUNCIL. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR FROM THIS ITEM IS DIRECTION TO MOVE FORWARD OR TO BRING BACK MORE INFORMATION? RIFAT ALAM: YES, HONORABLE MAYOR AND COUNCIL. SO RIGHT NOW WE ARE LOOKING AT ONE PILOT PROJECT. THE NEXT STEP FROM HERE WOULD BE WE ARE GOING TO WORK WITH DR. HOSSAIN'S TEAM TO FINALIZE THE SCOPE. WE WILL THEN HAVE A DRAFT SERVICE AGREEMENT READY WITH THE SCOPE. AND THAT WOULD NEED COUNCIL APPROVAL WHICH WOULD BE PRESENTED IN FRONT OF YOU. SO SOME KEY ELEMENTS I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY AGAIN, BEST CASE SCENARIO, WE ARE GOING TO BE ONE OF THE FIRST IN COLLIN COUNTY WHO WOULD BE IMPLEMENTING THIS PILOT PROGRAM. A NUMBER OF OTHER MUNICIPALITIES ARE IN DISCUSSION WITH UTS TEAM TO HAVE THIS TECHNOLOGY IMPLEMENTED ON THEM. BUT IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, PRINCETON WOULD BE ONE OF THE VERY FIRST PIONEERS IN HAVING THIS PILOT PROGRAM. AND THE KEY BENEFIT THAT WE WOULD TREAT THIS EVEN AS A PILOT PROGRAM IS WE ARE GOING TO CONDUCT THE ROAD CONSTRUCTION, JUST LIKE A REGULAR ROAD. SO THE CONTRACTOR WOULD USE THEIR TRADITIONAL METHOD TO CONSTRUCT THE ROAD ITSELF. THEY WILL NOT NEED ANY ADDITIONAL OR SPECIALIZED STAFFING, LABOR, OR EQUIPMENT. EVERYTHING THAT THEY NEED, THEIR ASPHALT WOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF BY HIS TEAM, WORKING DIRECTLY HAND TO HAND WITH THE CONTRACTOR IN THEIR PLANT. AND HE IS ALSO GOING TO PROVIDE THAT SERVICE BY HAVING A BUNCH OF DEDICATED RESEARCHERS WHOSE SOLE FOCUS WOULD BE MAKING SURE THAT THE RECIPE THAT IS BEING COOKED IN THE PLANT IS DONE AS PER HIS SPEC. THAT'S HOW I WOULD PUT THAT. AND AFTER END OF THE CONSTRUCTION, BEST CASE SCENARIO, WE GET A BETTER ROAD. WORST CASE SCENARIO, WE GET A REGULAR ASPHALT ROAD, WHICH CAN BE. BUT IN EITHER CASE, THIS GIVES US A BENEFIT OF, ONE, HAVING A NEW TECHNOLOGY WITH THE POTENTIAL OF ADDITIONAL LIFE THROUGHOUT THE LIFE CYCLE OF THE PROJECT. SO YES, THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE IF THE GENERAL DIRECTION IS TO MOVE FORWARD, WE WOULD FINALIZE A SCOPE AND BRING IT BACK FOR COUNCIL'S FINAL APPROVAL. EUGENE ESCOBAR: MISS TODD? CHRISTINA TODD: I'M SORRY. I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. I WAS GOING THROUGH MY QUESTIONS. YOU'D MENTIONED GOING TO AMARILLO FOR TESTING THE COLD. HAVE YOU DONE EXTENSIVE STUDIES ON THE CLIMATE CHANGE? BECAUSE IN OUR PART OF TEXAS, IT CHANGES SEASONS RAPIDLY. SO OUR AREA WILL HAVE HEAVY RAINS AND FLOODING, AND THEN GO IMMEDIATELY TO HOT DAYS FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME WITHOUT ANY RAIN. AND HAVE YOU DONE STUDIES ON THAT TO SEE THE IMPACT OF SUCH A DRASTIC CHANGE FOR EXTENSIVE PERIODS OF TIME? RIFAT ALAM: SURE, EXACTLY. [00:30:02] THAT WAS DONE IN ROCKWELL. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: OK. OH, WHERE IS THAT? YEAH. SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, WHAT ABOUT THE CLIMATIC CHANGE? RIGHT? IN SAUDI ARABIA, THERE IS NO FLOODING. IT'S GOING TO BE ALL HOT ENVIRONMENT. IN DALLAS, WE PUT THE ROAD IS BASICALLY HOT WEATHER CONDITION. WE ARE TALKING WITH HOUSTON AND CORPUS CHRISTI. SOME OF THE ROADS, THEY ARE GOING THROUGH A HEAVY FLOODING, BUT WE DID TEST IT FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT CONDITIONS IN THE LAB, FOR FLOODING CONDITION, HOT WEATHER CONDITION, AND INUNDATED CONDITION. ALL OF THEM WORKS. WE DIDN'T TEST FOR ONE THING IN THE LAB. THAT IS A COLD WEATHER CONDITION. BECAUSE WE CANNOT SIMULATE THE COLD WEATHER IN THE LAB. WE CAN, BUT WE NEED A $2 MILLION LAB TO DO THE TEST. SO WHAT WE ARE DOING, THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT COLD WEATHER COMES WITH. COLD WEATHER, THE TEMPERATURE DROPS. THE TEMPERATURE DROP, WHAT IS THE EFFECT ON THE ASPHALT, NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, IF IT SNOWS, THERE'S A CRITICAL PROBLEM IS YOU ARE USING THE SALT TO MELT THE SNOW. THE SALT HAS A VERY SERIOUS EFFECT ON THE ASPHALT. THAT'S WHY IF YOU GO TO DETROIT, ROADS ARE ALL MESSED UP. YOU GO TO ANY COLD STATE, ROADS ARE ALL MESSED UP. NOW WE FEEL, WE FOUND A BIG SOLUTION FOR THAT. WE UTILIZED THE SALT AND DID THE TEST IN THE LAB. OUR SAMPLE DOESN'T HAVE A DEGRADATION EFFECT LIKE THE REGULAR ASPHALT. THAT'S WHY IF MY SAMPLE WORKS IN AMARILLO, THERE TWO ARE DUTY MIXES, MASSACHUSETTS AND OHIO. BOTH WANT ME TO IMPLEMENT THERE. I'M JUST PUSHING THEM BACK. BECAUSE I WANT TO TEST FIRST IN AMARILLO. AMARILLO IS LOCAL AND IN A SHORT ENVIRONMENT. NOW, IF AT THE MOMENT, AFTER SEEING ONE YEAR RESULT, I'M GOING TO JUMP TO BOTH OHIO AND MASSACHUSETTS, BECAUSE THAT WILL CHANGE THE WAY WE DESIGN THE ROAD. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT LOCAL ROAD CONDITION TEXAS. IT'S GOING TO BE NATIONAL OVERNIGHT BECAUSE THE SALT HAS A VERY NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THE REGULAR ASPHALT ROAD. SO FAR, WE HAVE DONE MORE THAN 100 TESTS. I DIDN'T EVEN TALK TO ANYBODY, PRESENT THE RESULTS. THE RESULTS ON THE SALTY CONDITION IS FANTASTIC. SO DID WE CHECK THAT SEASONAL VARIATION. YES, EXCEPT THE COLD WEATHER. ALL OTHER CONDITIONS, WE ALREADY CHECKED IN THE LAB. BUT THE EFFECT OF SALT, WE ALSO CHECKED IN THE LAB. THE RESULTS ARE FANTASTIC. CHRISTINA TODD: SO ARE YOU TESTING THEM IN ISOLATION OF HEAT ONLY, OR ARE YOU TESTING HOT TO WET AND STUFF-- SAHADAT HOSSAIN: YES. CHRISTINA TODD: --BECAUSE IT IMPACTS THE LONGEVITY TO GO, BECAUSE IN OUR AREA IT'S WET TO HOT, WET TO HOT. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: YES. CHRISTINA TODD: AND SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY LIKE ONLY NEEDING ROADS FOR HOT AREAS. OURS NEEDS A COMBINATION FOR BOTH. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: YES. SO WE HAVE A CHAMBER WHERE WE MAKE THE SAMPLE HOT AND DO THE TEST. WE HAVE ANOTHER CHAMBER WHERE THE SAMPLE GETS COLD QUICKLY. SO THAT VARIATION ALSO WE DID THAT TESTING IN THE LAB. IT WORKS. THAT'S WHY WHATEVER THE DECISION YOU MAKE, I'M GOING TO INVITE YOU GUYS TO OUR LAB. COME AND SEE HOW WE ARE DOING THE TEST, SEE THE FACILITY, YOU UNDERSTAND? SO THAT WE WILL GET A BETTER IDEA WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT, ACTUAL CONDITION. BUT WE ARE VERY CONFIDENT. EXCEPT AMARILLO. WE TESTED THE SALT CONDITION. THE ROAD IS GOING TO BE OK. NOW, HOT AND COLD, THERE IS ANOTHER EFFECT IN THE TEXAS ROAD, ESPECIALLY IN THE NORTH TEXAS. WE HAVE A VERY, HIGH EXPANSIVE CLAY SOIL. BECAUSE OF THIS HOT AND COLD WEATHER, OUR SOIL EITHER SHRINKS OR SWELLS. THAT CAUSES A LOT OF PROBLEM FOR THE ROAD CRACK. FOR TEXAS, SOME OF THE DISTRICTS, THEIR SHOULDER GETS CRACKED A LOT. WE USED ANOTHER PRODUCT WHICH IS MOISTURE BARRIER. WE CAN CONTROL THE CRACKING OF THE ROAD USING MOISTURE BARRIER FOR THOSE ALSO. THAT'S A DIFFERENT SOLUTION. BUT THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SUBGRADE SOIL. BECAUSE IF THE SUB-GRADE IS BAD, IT WILL HAVE A REFLECTION ON THE ROAD CONDITION. SO THAT WEATHER VARIATION HAS A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON THE SUBGRADE, THAN OUR PLASTIC ROAD. SO IF SUBGRADE, LET'S SAY SUMMER, THE MOISTURE IS GONE. THERE WILL BE OPENING, SO THE ROAD MIGHT SETTLE. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT, THERE ARE FEW DAYS OF RAIN. CLAY WILL SWELL, BECAUSE WE ARE SITTING ON THE EXPANSIVE CLAY [00:35:01] ZONE. THAT WILL HAVE MORE NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THE ROAD THAN ANYTHING ELSE. SO YOU HAVE AN EXCELLENT QUESTION, BUT THAT WILL AFFECT YOUR SUBGRADE CONDITION MORE THAN THE SURFACE CONDITION. CHRISTINA TODD: OK. THAT'S ACTUALLY INTERESTING. I'M FROM OHIO. SO THOSE ROADS, THOSE ROADS, I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THEM. SO IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO SEE IF THIS COULD IMPROVE THEM THERE AS WELL. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: YOU KNOW, OHIO CONTACTED ME EVEN BEFORE I STARTED WORKING FOR TXDOT. NOW WHEN I STARTED DOING IT FOR TXDOT, TXDOT TOLD ME I SHOULD NOT BE TALKING TO ANY OTHER DOTS. BECAUSE THEY WANT TO-- IF NICE JOB WORKING WITH THE OHIO DOT. AND I COME UP WITH A RESULT FROM THEM, WHO WILL CLAIM THAT THEY DID IT FIRST? OHIO. SO TXDOT DID NOT LET ME TALK TO ANY OTHER DOTS. I SAID, I'M OK. LET ME WORK ON IT. ONE DOT, IF IT WORKS FOR ONE DOT, OTHERS WILL AUTOMATICALLY ADOPT IF THE RESULTS ARE GOOD. NOW, IF I'M 10 PERSONS, I WILL BE WORKING IN 10 DIFFERENT STATE, DOTS. BUT I WANT TO GO IN A WAY THAT COLD AND HOT, I HAVE TO CONSIDER BOTH. COLD AND-- HOT AND FLOODING CONDITIONS, I AM VERY CONFIDENT. COLD WEATHER, I'M CHECKING. I'M CONFIDENT BASED ON THE LAB DATA. BUT I NEED BACKUP FROM ACTUAL FIELD DATA. SO COLD I'M POSITIVE IS GOING TO WORK, BUT BEING POSITIVE AND HAVING NUMBERS BEHIND YOU IS DIFFERENT. SO THAT'S WHY AMARILLO, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. AND WE ARE DOING IT NEXT MONTH. EUGENE ESCOBAR: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. MR. RUTLEDGE? JAISEN RUTLEDGE: I JUST HAVE ONE MORE QUICK QUESTION. SO OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE ENGAGED WITH TXDOT. THEY'VE BEEN INVOLVED. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: YES. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: AND IN PRINCETON, WE HAVE ROADS THAT ARE OWNED BY TXDOT. WE HAVE ROADS THAT ARE THE CITY'S RESPONSIBILITY AND ROADS THAT ARE THE COUNTY'S RESPONSIBILITY. ARE YOU ENGAGED AT THE COUNTY LEVEL AS WELL? ARE YOU ENGAGED AT THE COUNTY LEVEL AS WELL. RIFAT ALAM: ARE YOU WORKING WITH ANY COUNTY? SAHADAT HOSSAIN: EXCELLENT QUESTION. I DIDN'T EVEN REMEMBER. I FORGOT ABOUT IT. TOMORROW IN OUR LAB, DALLAS, DALLAS COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OFFICE IS VISITING OUR LAB. THEY INVITED ME AND I WENT AND GAVE A PRESENTATION. SO TXDOT IS THE STATE DEPARTMENT. OTHER THAN PRINCETON, I'M RIGHT NOW TALKING WITH FIVE OTHER CITIES. THEY WANT TO IMPLEMENT THIS. SO THE COUNTY OFFICE CAME TO KNOW, AGAIN, FROM THE NEWS AND MEDIA, THEY CONTACTED ME THAT CAN YOU COME AND FIX OUR COUNTY ROAD. SO I SAID COUNTY ROADS ARE USUALLY LOW TRAFFIC VOLUME, RIGHT? BUT THEIR POINT IS SOMETIMES WHEN THE HIGHWAY IS CLOGGED, MANY OF THIS HEAVY LOADED TRAFFIC GETS A DETOUR AND GETS INTO THE COUNTY ROAD. AM I TALKING TO THE COUNTY? YES. I HAVE TWO OR THREE MEETINGS WITH THEM ALREADY, SO WE ARE WORKING ON A CONTRACT THAT WE WILL BE WORKING ON ALL THEIR COUNTY ROADS FOR DALLAS. IF THERE IS ANY ISSUE, WE'LL GO AND FIX THEM. BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT MANY DIFFERENT CROSS SECTIONS, AND THEY WANTED TO SEE HOW THE FACILITY IN OUR LAB AND THE PARKING LOT THAT WE-- I CANNOT TAKE YOU GUYS TO DALLAS STATE HIGHWAY 205. THAT'S A VERY HEAVY-DUTY TRAFFIC. SO IF I NEED TO TAKE SOME VISITOR THERE, I HAVE TO TALK TO TXDOT, HAVE THE TRAFFIC CONTROL BEFORE I GO THERE. BUT OUR PARKING LOT, ANYTIME YOU CAN COME AND SEE OUR PARKING LOT, THE PLASTIC ROAD. SO, YES, WE ARE WORKING WITH THE DALLAS COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OFFICE. AND THEIR OFFICE IS COMING TO VISIT OUR LAB TOMORROW MORNING. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: AND COLLIN COUNTY, ARE YOU ANYWHERE WITH COLLIN COUNTY? SAHADAT HOSSAIN: I HAVE RIGHT NOW I'M TALKING ONLY WITH THE DALLAS COUNTY. BUT WITH THAT, AFTER THAT NEWS, I GOT CALLS FROM FOUR OTHER COUNTY OFFICES. THEY'RE ALL QUESTION WAS, CAN YOU COME AND WORK WITH US? YES, I CAN. SO NOW COUNTY AND ALL THIS, THE ROAD IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC VOLUME. OK. I'M TAKING A LOT OF YOUR TIME. I'M TALKING WITH DFW AIRPORT. THEY ARE COMING TO VISIT TWO WEEKS AFTER THE COUNTY GOES OFF. SO I'M FIXING SOME OF THEIR SERVICE ROADS, BUT THEIR VP FOR ENVIRONMENT OFFICE ASKED ME, CAN YOU PUT THIS PLASTIC ROAD, PLASTIC MIX ON THE RUNWAY. WHAT WILL BE MY ANSWER? OF COURSE. CAN I DO IT? I'M NOT SURE. I HAVE TO CHECK THE COMBINATION. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: GOTCHA. THANK YOU. EUGENE ESCOBAR: ALL RIGHT, SO I GUESS THE DIRECTION I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE ON IT. I DON'T THINK I'M TOO, ME PERSONALLY, CONVINCED JUST BECAUSE THE COLD WEATHER TEST HASN'T BEEN DONE. AND WE DO GET COLD WEATHER HERE. AND I JUST WONDER IF WE DID DO A PILOT PROGRAM. AND THEN WE HAVE ROADS THAT WE EXPERIENCE SOMETHING LIKE 2020 AGAIN WHERE WE HAVE 0 DEGREE WEATHER, IF THIS WOULD ACTUALLY AFFECT IT BEFORE YOU'VE ACTUALLY DONE THE TEST, WHETHER ICE AND SNOW CAN ACTUALLY AFFECT THIS ROAD. I THINK IT'S A LITTLE TOO EARLY, AT LEAST FOR ME PERSONALLY, TO FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THIS PROGRAM, BECAUSE NORTH TEXAS STILL GETS ICE AND WE STILL GET SNOW. WE STILL GET COLD WEATHER. [00:40:01] IT'S NOT JUST HOT AND WET ALL YEAR. BUT WITHOUT YOU DOING TESTS ON THAT, WE DON'T KNOW HOW THIS WILL ACTUALLY LAST IN COLD WEATHER. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: VERY GOOD POINT. SO LAST YEAR, THERE WAS SOME SNOWFALL IN OUR CAMPUS, 2024 AND 2025. WE WENT AND CHECKED THE ROAD CONDITION IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT SNOWFALL. NOW HERE, THE SNOWFALL MAY BE ONE OR TWO DAYS. THERE MAY BE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME. IN THOSE SNOWFALL CONDITIONS, ALL OUR ROADS, ALL IN OUR CAMPUS, WE HAD 55 DIFFERENT SECTIONS. ALL OF THEM ARE WORKING. SO WE HAVE A SNAPSHOT OF HOW IT'S GOING TO WORK IN THE DFW COLD WEATHER CONDITION. OUR COLD IS BASICALLY 7 TO 10 DAYS MAX, THREE TO FOUR DAYS SNOW. PUT THE SALT, IT GOES AWAY. AMARILLO WILL SIMULATE THE CONDITION FOR MASSACHUSETTS AND OHIO, WHEN THERE IS AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF SNOW AND ICE. BUT DFW ICING CONDITION, WE ALREADY CHECKED AND WE HAVE EXCELLENT DATA, JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION. EUGENE ESCOBAR: OK. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE. ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE NOT TAKING A VOTE ON THIS, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT A CONTRACT AND WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE, JUST TO SEE WHAT THE COST SAVINGS WOULD BE. IF YOU CAN GET THAT TOGETHER, WHERE WE CAN SEE MAYBE A FIVE-YEAR COST SAVING, EVEN ADDING THE MAINTENANCE IN IT, JUST SO WE CAN DECIDE FROM THERE. RIFAT ALAM: YEAH, WE'LL BRING IT BACK FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, COUNCIL. CHRISTINA TODD: AND I WOULD LOVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME CHECK OUT THE LAB. I THINK THAT'D BE GREAT TO SEE EVERYBODY. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: I WILL GET ALL OF YOUR NUMBERS AND SEND AN EMAIL. ANYTIME YOU WANT TO COME. EUGENE ESCOBAR: THAT WORKS. SAHADAT HOSSAIN: AND WE'LL HAVE THE MEETING BEFORE LUNCH. SO THAT AFTER THAT, WE CAN HAVE LUNCH. EUGENE ESCOBAR: THAT WORKS. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [INAUDIBLE] ITEM C2 2026-240, PRESENTATION, DISCUSSION AND UPDATE REGARDING CITY OF PRINCETON'S CURRENT PAVEMENT CONDITION INDEX, ASSESSMENT STUDY, ROADWAY IMPROVEMENT PRIORITIES, AND ANTICIPATED TIMELINES, AND THE CITY MULTI-YEAR ROADWAY MANAGEMENT PLAN. RIFAT ALAM: GOOD EVENING AGAIN, HONORABLE CITY COUNCIL. THIS WILL BE A SHORT INFORMATIONAL ITEM ONLY. SO I'LL TRY TO GO THROUGH IT REAL QUICK. SO AS YOU RECALL, THE CITY DID A PAVEMENT CONDITION STUDY. THAT WAS BACK IN 2025. WHAT IT WAS DONE WAS FINDING OUT THE PAVEMENT CONDITION INDEX, OR PCI. AND THIS INFORMATION WAS SHARED WITH COUNCIL BACK THEN. HOW THIS WORKS IS AN AUTOMATED EQUIPMENT IN A VAN THAT DRIVES AROUND EVERY CITY ON ROAD, AND SCORES THE CONDITION OF THE PAVEMENT BASED ON THE IMAGERY CAPTURED ALONG WITH SOME SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS. AND IT GIVES US A SCORE. SO ANY ROADWAY THAT HAS LOWER PCI SCORES ARE BAD. HIGHER TYPICALLY MEANS GOOD. THIS WAS THE SUMMARY OF THE RESULT ITSELF. SO RIGHT NOW, THE GOOD THING IS MOST OF THE PRINCETON HAS A PRETTY GOOD AND SOLID PCI. WE DO HAVE ROADWAYS THAT NEED ATTENTION, AND THAT SUMS UP TO CLOSE TO 10 MILES OF ROADWAY. THIS WAS THE PCI MAP FOR THE ENTIRE CITY ON ROADWAY NETWORK. AND JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA WHAT THE BAD ROAD LOOKS LIKE, THE VAN OR THE EQUIPMENT ITSELF, WHEN IT RUNS THROUGH ANY ROAD, IT TAKES A SAMPLE. AND TO BE TRANSPARENT AND GIVE YOU AN INSIGHT OF HOW THAT PCI LOOKS LIKE, WE HAVE INCLUDED ALL THE ROADWAY SEGMENTS WITH VERY POOR OR SERIOUS OR FAIL SEGMENT, AND THEIR PCI RANKING IN THE FEW SLIDES. SO THIS INFORMATION IS INCLUDED IN THE SLIDE. WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH EVERY SINGLE SEGMENT, BUT THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE NOW. NOW JUST FOR TIMELINE, BACK IN JUNE 2026, THE FORMER STAFF REQUESTED CONSTRUCTION OR OPINION OF PROBABLE CONSTRUCTION COST FOR POSSIBLE ROAD RECONSTRUCTION. CITY COUNCIL REQUESTED STAFF TO BRING BACK THAT INFORMATION. THAT'S WHAT WE ARE BRINGING IN FRONT OF YOU. BUT WITH FULL TRANSPARENCY. I WANTED TO CLARIFY A FEW THINGS. WE HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO IDENTIFY THE PROPOSED PROJECT THAT WAS PRESENTED BY KIMLEY-HORN'S ESTIMATE. WHAT WE STRONGLY FEEL LIKE, THAT SOME OF THAT NEEDS A SECOND LOOK. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE DID. AGAIN, THE CONSULTANT PROVIDED WHAT THEY WERE ASKED TO DO AND VERY DRAFT INITIAL VALUE, BUT I WANTED TO BE VERY TRANSPARENT TO SAY, THOSE OPINIONS OF PROBABLE COST WAS NOT PLUG AND PLAY. SO WHEN WE TOOK A DEEP DIVE, WHAT WE FELT LIKE WAS THOSE MIGHT BE A GOOD STARTING POINT, BUT WE NEED A MORE HOLISTIC APPROACH SO WE CAN PLAN FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS INSTEAD OF BEING REACTIVE. [00:45:03] AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE PRESENTING TODAY. SO WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TODAY FOR YOU IS AGAIN INFORMATIONAL ITEM. WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR ANY SPECIFIC PROJECT APPROVAL. EACH OF THOSE PROJECTS WOULD NEED YOUR APPROVAL, COUNCIL APPROVAL, BEFORE WE PROCEED, BUT THIS WOULD GIVE YOU A SNAPSHOT OF WHAT IT'S LOOKING LIKE. SO THIS WAS THE INITIAL ESTIMATE THAT WAS PROVIDED BY THEM. WE ARE NOT PROCEEDING WITH THIS ESTIMATE. WHAT WE HAVE IS WE ARE FOCUSING FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, HAVE A FIVE-YEAR REVISED STRATEGY. SO INSTEAD OF SIMPLY GETTING THE ENGINEERING DESIGN DONE AND THEN GOING WITH THE CONSTRUCTION, WE ARE TACKLING THIS WITH A MULTIFACTOR APPROACH. PART OF THAT IS WE DO HAVE POSSIBILITY AND WE HAVE EXPLORED THE POSSIBILITY WITH SOME DISCUSSION WITH NCTCOG, BASED ON THE POPULATION THAT PRINCETON HAS NOW, WE ARE QUALIFIED TO PARTICIPATE IN THEIR SURFACE TRANSPORTATION TECHNICAL COMMITTEE, STTC, THAT IS PART OF THEIR REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION COUNCIL, RTC. WHAT THIS WOULD ALLOW IS WE WOULD HAVE A LITERAL SEAT AT THE TABLE, AND WE WOULD BE ABLE TO VOTE ON ACTION ITEMS REGARDING PROJECT FUNDING, PROJECT SCOPING DIRECTLY WITH RTC. AS YOU KNOW, OUR REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION COUNCIL, OR RTC, SERVES AS THE MPO FOR THIS WHOLE REGION. SO LITERALLY, THIS SERVES AS THE BANK FOR GIVING PROJECT PRIORITIES AND ALLOCATING FUNDING. SO THIS WOULD BE PART OF OUR APPROACH. AND AS WE ARE STARTING OUR ROADWAY RECONSTRUCTION, IN ADDITION TO THE PCI, WE WOULD ALSO NEED TO LOOK AT THE SUBGRADE. AND THAT'S WHY WE WOULD CONDUCT A GEOTECHNICAL INVESTIGATION. SO PCI GIVES US THE SYMPTOM. BUT GEOTECHNICAL INVESTIGATION OR LOOKING AT OUR SUBGRADE THAT IS KIND OF DOING THE DIAGNOSIS. WHAT'S CAUSING THAT? WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE SUBGRADE? WE TALKED ABOUT OUR PILOT PROGRAM. AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE ARE GOING TO DO REGULAR ROADWAY RECONSTRUCTION AS WELL AS CONTINUOUS MAINTENANCE. SO THIS IS A DRAFT SNAPSHOT OF WHAT STAFF HAVE PLANNED. AND AGAIN, THIS IS A DRAFT PLAN ONLY. BEFORE WE START ANY OF THIS PROJECT, EVERY SINGLE OF THIS PROJECTS WOULD NEED COUNCIL APPROVAL AND AUTHORIZATION, AND THOSE WILL COME IN FRONT OF YOU IN PROPER CHANNEL. BUT THIS IS WHAT OUR DRAFT PLAN LOOKS LIKE. AS YOU WOULD SEE FOR YEAR 1, WE HAVE FOUR PROJECTS PLANNED AND WE HAVE A CAP. SO BEFORE WE FINALIZE AND GREENLIGHT EACH OF THESE PROJECTS, WE WOULD HAVE A DEEPER DISCUSSION MAKING SURE THE BUDGET FOR THE ENGINEERING AS WELL AS CONSTRUCTION, THOSE WOULD NEED COUNCIL AUTHORIZATION. BUT THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. AND-- EUGENE ESCOBAR: CAN I ASK A QUESTION REAL QUICK. SORRY. RIFAT ALAM: YES, SIR. EUGENE ESCOBAR: HOW DID YOU-- ARE THESE WORSE TO-- ARE THESE THE WORST, SO NORTH 3RD STREET FOR PROJECT 2027, HOW DID YOU SELECT WHICH STREETS YOU'RE DOING FIRST? RIFAT ALAM: YES, SIR. VERY GOOD POINT. SO THIS WAS OUR SELECTION CRITERIA. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION ALSO. EUGENE ESCOBAR: YEAH. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: SOME OF THESE INCLUDE COUNTY ROADS. RIFAT ALAM: SO THAT'S ANOTHER THING. SOME OF THOSE NAMES, EVEN THOUGH THE NAME SAYS COUNTY ROAD, THOSE ARE THE ROADS THAT BASED ON OUR CURRENT RECORD ARE OWNED BY THE CITY. SO THE LEGACY NAME, BASED ON THE RECORD THAT WE HAVE SEEN WAS NOT CHANGED. BUT BEFORE WE MOVE WITH ANY OF THOSE, WE ARE GOING TO VERIFY OWNERSHIP OF EVERYTHING. THE PCI STUDY THAT WAS DONE AND SUBSEQUENTLY OUR CITY RECORD MARKS THOSE AS CITY OWNED. BUT THE LEGACY NAME MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN CHANGED. BUT BEFORE WE AUTHORIZE ANY OF THOSE PROJECTS, THAT'S WHY WE'RE GOING TO DOUBLE CHECK THE OWNERSHIP WITH THE COUNTY ITSELF. BUT YEAH, THE VERY GOOD POINT. AND THE SELECTION CRITERIA WAS PRIMARILY BASED ON PCI, AS YOU HAVE SEEN. SO WHAT WE DID WAS WE LOOKED AT THE COMBINED PCI FOR EVERY ROAD SECTION THAT WAS MARKED AS POOR, SERIOUS, FAILED, OR POORLY GRADED. SO BASICALLY THE DOUBLE DIGIT PCI FROM 0 TO ALL THE WAY, AS YOU WOULD SEE IN THESE SLIDES. AND WE HAVE COMBINED THEM. AND BASED ON THAT, WE HAVE ALSO COMBINED THE USABILITY, THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC RIGHT NOW THOSE ROADS SERVES, AND THE EASE OF ACCESS ITSELF AND HOW QUICKLY WE CAN MOVE. BECAUSE IT WON'T MAKE SENSE TO CONSTRUCT A ROAD WHERE [00:50:03] WE KNOW THAT THREE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, WE MIGHT HAVE ANOTHER UTILITY, RELOCATION OR UTILITY PROJECT THAT IS ASSOCIATED TO IT, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO BUILD A NEW ROAD, THEN TEAR IT UP, THEN PUT ON A UTILITY LINE. SO ALL OF THOSE THINGS WERE CONSIDERED. AND ANOTHER KEY FACTOR IS WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE SPREAD OUT, BECAUSE AS OF TODAY, WE ARE LOOKING AN ESTIMATE OF CLOSE TO $20 MILLION, BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO SPREAD IT OUT. SO WE START WITH YEAR ONE, START WITH FOUR PROJECTS. WHILE WE ARE USING THE GENERAL FUND TO HANDLE THIS ROAD, OUR EXPECTATION IS THE STAFF WOULD WORK WITH OTHER AGENCIES TO IDENTIFY AND LOCATE ADDITIONAL FUNDING ITSELF. SO LOOKING AT WHAT BUDGET CONSTRAINTS THAT WE HAVE, AND THE PCI, AND THE PROJECT LOCATION, THAT'S HOW THOSE ROADS ARE PICKED. SO THESE ARE THE ROADS THAT WE HAVE FOR YEAR ONE. THE FIRST ONE, BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT THE ROAD RECONSTRUCTION, LIKE WE SHOWED IN THE PREVIOUS SLIDE ABOUT INTERIM MAINTENANCE, SO THE INTERIM MAINTENANCE LIST IS NOT SHOWN HERE. BUT STAFF IS PLANNING TO DO CONTINUOUS INTERIM MAINTENANCE FOR ALL POORLY GRADED ROADS THROUGHOUT THE NEXT FIVE YEARS AS WELL. PART OF THAT WE DID STARTED WITH GREENFIELD ACRES, MORE RECENTLY WITH IN-HOUSE APPROACH. THERE WAS NO CONTRACT OR ADDITIONAL COST INVOLVED, BUT THE COST OF THE MATERIALS ONLY. AND FOR THE CAPITAL PROJECT NUMBER 1, NORTH 3RD STREET WOULD BE OUR PEAK. YOU CAN SEE THE PCI HERE. WE DID HAVE AN INITIAL THOUGHT OF CONSIDERING THIS AS A PILOT PROGRAM FOR PLASTIC ROAD, BUT IF THAT'S NOT THE DIRECTION COUNCIL WANTS TO GO, WE CAN STILL DO THAT AS A REGULAR ROAD. SO REGARDLESS, WHETHER WE IMPLEMENT THE PILOT PROGRAM OR NOT, THIS WOULD HAPPEN AS A REGULAR ASPHALT ROAD. THIS IS OUR PROJECT NUMBER 2 FOR FY 2027. THAT WOULD BE THE JEFFERSON AVENUE. AND YOU CAN SEE THE LIMIT AND THE PCI IS LISTED HERE. THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT ONE. SO FROM THIS POINT, AGAIN, TONIGHT'S ITEM IS AN INFORMATIONAL ITEM ONLY. BEFORE WE START ANY OF THESE PROJECTS, IT WOULD GO THROUGH THE PROPER BIDDING. IF DESIGN IS INVOLVED, IT WOULD GO THROUGH THE PROPER DESIGN PROCESS, AND EVERYTHING WOULD NEED COUNCIL APPROVAL, AND IT WOULD COME IN FRONT OF YOU AS INDIVIDUAL ITEMS FOR APPROVAL. THAT'S ALL WE HAVE, AND I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE ON THE LIST OR PROJECT. EUGENE ESCOBAR: YEAH, I DO HAVE A QUESTION. SOME OF THE ROADS THAT SAY FAILED, HOW COME THOSE AREN'T A PRIORITY? BECAUSE I WOULD ASSUME THAT IF THEY'RE FAILED, THAT THEY'RE IMPASSABLE OR THEY'RE JUST-- AND I WOULD SAY THAT EAST COLLEGE, SOME OF THESE STREETS HAVE BEEN THIS WAY FOR FOREVER. RIFAT ALAM: SO, THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT, MAYOR. SO THOSE ARE PARTS OF SEGMENTS. SO WE DO HAVE COLLEGE AVENUE AS PART OF OUR PLAN AS WELL. SO AS YOU'LL SEE, IT'S RIGHT THERE. SO PART OF THAT WOULD BE-- EUGENE ESCOBAR: THAT'S IN THREE YEARS. RIFAT ALAM: YES, SIR. SO THOSE TWO SEGMENTS ARE ONLY TWO. IF YOU LOOK AT THE OVERALL, WE HAVE COMBINED THE PCI FOR THE ENTIRE ROADWAY SEGMENT BECAUSE ONLY TWO SEGMENTS FOR ONE PORTIONS OF THE ROADWAY CAN FAIL, BUT ANOTHER ROADWAY MIGHT HAVE A WORSE PCI FOR ITS ENTIRE SEGMENT. THAT'S WHY WE WENT AHEAD AND INCLUDED ALL OF THOSE SEGMENTS, JUST NOT ONE SEGMENT. EUGENE ESCOBAR: I GUESS FOR ME, WHEN IT'S FAILED, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE BEYOND THE POINT OF REPAIR, WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN REPAIRED. I DON'T LIKE SEEING THAT IT FAILED AND THESE OTHER SERIOUS ONES, AND THEN THE OTHER ONES ARE I'M NOT SAYING THAT 3RD STREET DOESN'T NEED REPAIR TOO. AND I SEE THE PCI SCORE IS A 08, HERE AND THEN 3RD IS A-- 3RD IS A 32. RIFAT ALAM: MAYOR, IF I MAY, I WOULD LIKE TO JUST SHOW ONE EXAMPLE. HOPEFULLY IT HELPS. SO AS YOU SEE THE NORTH 3RD STREET, THAT ALSO HAS A VERY LOWER PCI, AND THAT'S FOR ITS ENTIRE LENGTH. SO IT RANKED AROUND 11. PORTIONS OF THE COLLEGE STREET ITSELF, WHICH HAS A DOUBLE DIGIT PCI, SO THOSE PIECES ARE 30, YOU WOULD SEE THAT IN THIS SAME SLIDE. [00:55:01] AND SOME OF THOSE PORTIONS OF THE OTHER SEGMENTS FOR COLLEGE AVENUE, THOSE EVEN HAVE A HIGHER PCI FROM 30 TO 50, AS YOU WILL SEE IN THE OTHER TWO SLIDES. BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE, WE CAN DEFINITELY COMPILE THE INFORMATION THAT IS PRESENTED ON THIS SLIDE AND SHOW YOU STREET BY STREET. IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY SIMPLE SPREADSHEET TOO, IF THAT HELPS, TO VISUALIZE THAT INFORMATION. EUGENE ESCOBAR: YEAH, I'M JUST-- LIKE I SAID, IT'S I'M GOING TO RUTLEDGE GO. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: NO, I JUST GOING TO-- EUGENE ESCOBAR: --WHAT YOU GOT THERE. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: YEAH, I'M HAPPY FOR MS. TODD TO GO FIRST. EUGENE ESCOBAR: OK, MS. TODD? CHRISTINA TODD: SO THESE ARE CAPITAL PROJECTS THAT YOU'RE DISCUSSING. SO HOW IS IT EXACTLY THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING TO US CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS WHEN WE DON'T HAVE OUR CIAC COMMITTEE, WHICH IS REQUIRED. THESE TYPES OF THINGS HAVE TO GO THROUGH THEM PRIOR TO US FOR APPROVAL. SO HOW ARE WE EVEN DISCUSSING THIS RIGHT NOW WHEN WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE REQUIRED COMMITTEE IN PLACE? EUGENE ESCOBAR: YOUR MIKE IS NOT ON. RIFAT ALAM: I'M SORRY. THANKS FOR THE QUESTION, COUNCIL MEMBER TODD. SO I CAN DEFINITELY SPEAK TO THAT. THE ROLE OF CIAC ITSELF, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE AND WE CAN PROVIDE MORE CONTEXT TO THAT. DEPENDING ON THE CITY ORDINANCE, THEIR ROLE IS VERY, VERY, VERY SPECIFIC. I THINK WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, IF I'M CORRECT, CIAC'S ROLE ITSELF IS NOT SIMILAR TO A P&Z BOARD, SO THEY REGULATE THE IMPACT FEE, HOW IMPACT FEES WOULD BE ALLOCATED, AND WHAT THAT WOULD BE. SO RIGHT NOW, WE DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO MOVE AND SELECT THE PROJECT. AND WHEN A CIAC IS FORMED, IF THERE IS A CHANGE ON THE IMPACT FEE ITSELF, THERE WOULD BE AN INVOLVEMENT OF CIAC ITSELF. BUT CIAC'S ROLE ITSELF IS NOT SOMETHING SIMILAR TO A P&Z BOARD, WHERE THEY WOULD LOOK AT EVERY CAPITAL PROJECT AND APPROVED THAT. THAT WAS HOW CIAC IS FORMED. I DO UNDERSTAND THAT SOME CITIES CHOSE TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FUNCTION FOR ITS FOR IT'S OWN CIAC. BUT ULTIMATELY, IT WOULD BE A COUNCIL DECISION HOW COUNCIL WANTS TO HAVE THE CIAC PERFORM. IS IT GOING TO BE SIMILAR TO A P&Z, OR IT'S GOING TO BE ITS CORE ROLE FOR IMPACT FEE? CHRISTINA TODD: AND WILL THEY HAVE TO AUDIT THE MONEY FOR THE NEW LAW? CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT MONEY HAS TO BE-- EUGENE ESCOBAR: LET ME HAVE MR. HALL ANSWER THAT. DAVID HALL: YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY WRONG. AND I THINK IT'S A MATTER OF HOW NARROWLY ONE WANTS TO CONSTRUE THE STATE REQUIREMENT. SO I WOULDN'T SAY THAT YOU'RE WRONG IN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. DO YOU JUST WANT TO APPLY IT TO RIFAT'S POINT TO IMPACT FEE AND IMPACT FEE-RELATED PROJECTS? THE QUESTION STARTS TO BECOME WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. IS THIS MAINTENANCE? OR IS THIS PART-- THAT DOESN'T MEAN MAINTENANCE CAN'T BE PART OF A CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM, BY THE WAY. AND I DON'T KNOW. AND I WOULD ASK KELLY MAYBE TO WEIGH IN BECAUSE I DON'T FEEL THAT IT'S VERY SETTLED ON THE STATE OF THIS NEW BODY, IF IT'S JUST FOR NEW PROJECTS THAT RESULT FROM DEVELOPMENT AND THOSE THINGS. OR DOES IT APPLY TO ANYTHING THAT'S CAPITAL? SO I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'RE WRONG. AND SO REALLY, I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS LAW IS SETTLED AT THIS TIME IN TERMS OF THE APPLICATION OF IT BECAUSE I'VE SEEN IT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS. CHRISTINA TODD: YOU'RE RIGHT IN THAT IT'S FAIRLY NEW. I CAN LOOK AND SEE IF THERE'S ANY RECENT DECISIONS THAT WOULD LET US KNOW. DAVID HALL: AND SO IF THAT'S THE WILL OF THE COUNCIL, THAT IF YOU WANT US TO GO BACK AND IF YOU REALLY WANT TO HELP TRY TO DEFINE THE EXTENT OF THIS COMMITTEE, AND MAYBE THEN AT THIS POINT, THIS MOOTS, THIS CONVERSATION. THAT'S FINE TOO. BUT THERE HAD BEEN A PUSH TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITH RESPECT TO THE ROAD MAINTENANCE PROGRAM AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH IT. AND WE FELT THAT MAYBE THIS WAS A LITTLE BIT OUTSIDE OF HOW YOU COULD CONSTRUE THOSE STATUTES. BUT YEAH, IF YOU DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, WE CAN, AGAIN, PUT THIS TO THE SIDE FOR NOW, GO BACK AND TRY TO GET A BIT MORE CLARITY ON THAT. CHRISTINA TODD: THEIR PURPOSE IS TO ENSURE THE EQUITY OF THE PROJECTS. AND WE DO HAVE A CURRENT CIP PLAN IN PLACE THAT IS ACTIVE, AND WE ARE CLEARLY DIVERGING FROM THAT PLAN, GOING DOWN A NEW PATH, LOOKING AT THE NEW PROJECTS, WHICH MAKES IT VERY CLEAR WHY WE NEED A NEW CIP PLAN IN PLACE, WHICH GOES THROUGH THAT COMMITTEE. [01:00:02] BUT AGAIN, I MEAN MY HESITATIONS WITH THE BUDGET STAND EVEN NOW. WE HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FINANCING, QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FUNDING. IT'S ABOUT THIS. MONEY, WE'RE SPENDING MONEY. THE TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. THEY ALREADY HAD QUESTIONS FOR US ABOUT IT. AND NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST MAKING COMPLETE CHANGES WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE CIAC. EUGENE ESCOBAR: WE'RE NOT MAKING ANY DECISIONS RIGHT NOW. AND THIS AIN'T THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT IT. IF WE WANT TO BRING THE CIAC BOARD BACK TO DISCUSS IT, WE CAN BRING THAT BACK. BUT RIGHT NOW, I MEAN, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS HOLDING UP THE PROJECT FOR THE ROADWAYS. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT'S IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW. AND IF THAT MEANS THAT WE DON'T HAVE A CLEAR DEFINITION THAT WE NEED TO BRING THAT BACK TO HAVE A CLEAR DEFINITION, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT THAT. CHRISTINA TODD: SO YOU'RE GOING TO PUT MY AGENDA ITEM I REQUESTED A WHILE AGO ON THE AGENDA NOW? EUGENE ESCOBAR: I DON'T KNOW AGENDA ITEM YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. CHRISTINA TODD: I ASKED FOR THE CIAC TO BE ON THE AGENDA. SO ARE YOU SAYING YOU'RE GOING TO PUT IT ON THE AGENDA NOW? EUGENE ESCOBAR: SURE. BUT ONCE AGAIN, IT WASN'T MY CHOICE. BUT WE CAN CONTINUE. OH, ACTUALLY, MR. RUTLEDGE. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: YEAH. I JUST WANTED TO GO BACK TO THE POINTS THAT THE MAYOR BROUGHT UP EARLIER, THE TWO FAILED SEGMENTS THAT WERE FOR COLLEGE STREET. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IF THEY'RE CURRENTLY LISTED AT A PCI OF 8, I BELIEVE IS WHAT WE HAVE THEM SHOWING, AND I THINK OUR PROJECTION IS YOU MENTIONED THAT THOSE SEGMENTS ARE ON THE LIST FOR I THINK IT WAS SHOWING 2029 IS WHEN WE'RE ANTICIPATING TO TOUCH ON THOSE, THE FOUR MAJOR ROAD CONSTRUCTIONS, I THINK THE SLIDE 12. YEAH. DO WE HAVE AN IDEA OF ARE WE GOING TO SLIDE FROM AN 8 TO A 2? WHAT TYPE OF-- BECAUSE I GET YOUR POINT. WE WANT TO ADDRESS FULL SEGMENTS IF IT MAKES MORE SENSE AND I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC. I CAN APPRECIATE THE LOGIC THERE. BUT MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT DO WE KNOW HOW FAR SOUTH THIS THOSE SEGMENTS ARE GOING TO GO. BECAUSE I THINK AS A COUNCIL WE HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DRIVING ON THOSE ROADS. RIFAT ALAM: YES, COUNCIL MEMBER. SO PART OF THAT WOULD BE THAT'S WHAT WE MENTIONED ABOUT THE INTERIM MAINTENANCE, JUST LIKE WE DO HAVE GREENFIELD AS PART OF OUR FULL RECONSTRUCTION ITSELF. BUT IN THE MEANTIME, WE ARE TAKING THE TIME TO MAKE SURE WE ARE ADDRESSING GREENFIELD AS AN INTERIM MEASURE. SO AS OF NOW, FOR ANY SEGMENTS, OUR STRATEGY IS, AGAIN, THIS WOULD BE BASED ON COUNCIL APPROVAL. BUT ANYTHING THAT'S LISTED FOR A BIG RECONSTRUCTION, REST OF THE AREA WHERE WE ARE NOT GETTING THERE RIGHT AWAY, THEY ARE DOWN THE LIST, WE WOULD USE IN-HOUSE STAFF CAPACITY TO HAVE SOME INTERIM MAINTENANCE. AND WE HAVE OUR OWN WORKING PLAN THAT STAFF WOULD IMPLEMENT THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, BASICALLY ADDRESSING THOSE BAD ROADS. SO IT PROVIDES SOME RELIEF TO THE RESIDENT AND IT INCREASES THE LIFE CYCLE ITSELF. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: I WOULD LOVE, WHEN THIS DOES COME BACK, I'D LOVE TO SEE THAT INCLUDED IN THIS, WHAT THAT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE. DAVID HALL: IF I COULD ADDRESS. YEAH, SO PART OF THIS IS SUBJECTIVE, RIGHT. AND I THINK THAT'S THE POINT THAT SEVERAL OF YOU ARE MAKING WITHOUT SAYING IT DIRECTLY, RIFAT TALKED ABOUT THE CRITERIA THAT HE UTILIZED. SOME OF IT IS TRAFFIC VOLUME, SOME OF IT HE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT AS AN EFFICIENCY. WHEN YOU'VE GOT ONE SEGMENT AND HAVING DEALT WITH THIS BEFORE, YOU'LL SEE THE PCI RATING. A SMALL SEGMENT WILL BE A 4 OR 2. AND YOU SEE ONE THAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S JUMPED AHEAD, BUT IT HAS A HIGHER RATING BECAUSE THE OVERALL SPAN OF THAT PROVES TO BE A BIT LOWER. AND SO PART OF THIS CONVERSATION IS THIS. MAYBE YOU DON'T WANT US TO USE THAT METHODOLOGY. MAYBE YOU'D BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH US GOING DOWN THAT LIST, BECAUSE SOME CITIES DO THIS, AND STARTING FROM THE LOWEST PCI AND GOING IN THAT ORDER. NOW, IF THAT'S YOUR PREFERENCE, THAT'S CERTAINLY OK WITH US UNDERSTANDING THAT, LIKE HIS SYSTEM, EVERY METHODOLOGY WILL HAVE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES. THE ADVANTAGE THERE IS, OF COURSE, THAT YOU GET TO THOSE MORE DEGRADED ROADS A LOT SOONER. THE DISADVANTAGE IS IT MAY CREATE A HIGHER COST DUE TO THE INEFFICIENCIES OF MOBILIZATION, DEMOBILIZATION. IT'S JUST PUSH PULL EFFECT. AND SO PART OF THIS CONVERSATION IS FOR YOU TO TELL US, IF YOU'RE NOT REALLY HAPPY WITH THE WAY THIS WAS FORMULATED, THAT'S OK. AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE, AGAIN, MAYBE IT IS JUST FOR YOU AS A COUNCIL, START WITH THE LOWEST AND WORK YOUR WAY THROUGH. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: I WOULD SAY, ME PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THE METHODOLOGY. I JUST THINK THAT TO BE ABLE TO ENSURE BECAUSE IF WE'RE ADDRESSING THESE THINGS PUBLICLY, WHOEVER'S GOING TO WATCH THIS LIVE STREAM LATER ON IS GOING TO LOOK AT THAT AND COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THESE POOR ROADS? SO A PART OF THIS PRESENTATION SHOULD FUTURE STATE, SHOULD INCLUDE, HEY, HOW ARE WE GOING TO ADDRESS [01:05:01] THOSE IN A TEMPORARY FASHION. THAT GIVES US A CONFIDENCE THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE RESIDENTS CALLING OR EMAILING US THAT THEY'VE BUSTED THEIR TIRE, CAR IS MESSED UP BECAUSE THEY WENT DOWN THIS ROAD THAT WE CLEARLY ARE AWARE THAT NEED TO BE REPAIRED. DAVID HALL: HOW ABOUT WE DO THIS? BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A COMPLETELY VALID CONCERN. AND, RIFAT'S IT'S ONLY BEEN HERE A COUPLE OF MONTHS. I'VE BEEN HERE A MONTH AND A HALF. WE WANTED TO HURRY UP AND GET SOMETHING IN FRONT OF YOU FOR THIS FEEDBACK. HOW ABOUT IN ABOUT A MONTH OR SO, WE COME BACK WITH A MORE ROBUST PRESENTATION THAT INCLUDES SOME OF THE INTERIM MAINTENANCE PLAN FOR THESE OTHER ROADS? WOULD THAT BE AMENABLE TO COUNCIL? EUGENE ESCOBAR: YEAH, DEFINITELY. ESPECIALLY FOR THE FAILED ROADS, BECAUSE YOU'RE SEEING THAT THERE AND SEEING THERE GOING TO BE THREE YEARS OUT. THEY ALREADY FAILED. SO, YEAH. ALL RIGHT. MS. TODD WAS ACTUALLY NEXT AND THEN MR. WASHINGTON. CHRISTINA TODD: SO WHILE I AGREE ABOUT THE FAILED ROADS, WE ALSO HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE ROADS THAT ARE GETTING THAT 100% RIGHT NOW, THOSE ARE ALL OF OUR NEW COMMUNITIES. AND IF WE'RE NOT BALANCING THIS CAREFULLY, THEN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE ROADS ARE GOING TO START FAILING AT THE SAME TIME, AND WE'RE GOING TO RUN OURSELVES INTO A BAD CORNER TO BE IN. SO I AGREE, WE NEED TO GET THE FAILED ROADS. WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT CREATIVE WAYS TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE GETTING EVERYTHING COVERED, EVEN IF SOME OF THEM ARE TEMPORARY FIXES, BECAUSE THEIR PROJECT FOR A FULL MAKEOVER IS DOWN THE ROAD. WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE NOT BEING SO SHORTSIGHTED IN EVERYTHING WE DO, AS WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST. WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR EYE ON THE FUTURE AND RECOGNIZE THAT OUR CITY GREW SO QUICKLY IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, AND ALL OF THAT INFRASTRUCTURE PRETTY MUCH HAS THE SAME EXPIRATION DATE, AND WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT IN MIND WITH OUR PLANNING AND PROCESSING. AND I HOPE TO SEE THAT IN THIS PLAN OF HOW WE'RE GOING TO KEEP ALL OF THAT IN MIND WHILE WE ARE ADDRESSING THE CURRENT PROBLEMS, SO THAT WE DON'T FIND OURSELVES IN A DEEPER PROBLEM FIVE YEARS FROM NOW. I HAVE A SECOND. DAVID HALL: I WORK THE MICROPHONE, APPARENTLY. CHRISTINA TODD: CAN I ASK MY SECOND THING? DAVID HALL: M I'M SORRY. BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A-- [INAUDIBLE] CHRISTINA TODD: MY SECOND POINT IS 3RD STREET DOESN'T HAVE STORMWATER SEWERS. IT'S ALL LIKE MAKESHIFT DITCHES. THEY'RE NOT REALLY DITCHES THERE ANYMORE, KIND OF OVERGROWN. SO ARE WE ALSO ADDRESSING THAT WHILE DOING THE ROAD? BECAUSE IT'S A WASTE OF MONEY TO GO REDO THIS ROAD IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO ADDRESS THE DRAINAGE PROBLEMS OVER THERE, BECAUSE WATER IS THE ROAD'S BIGGEST ENEMY. AND IF WE DON'T ADDRESS THAT AT THE SAME TIME, WE'RE JUST GOING TO THROW ALL OF THIS MONEY AT A ROAD AND LET IT GET DESTROYED BY THE WATER THAT'S GOING OVER THERE AND NOT BEING ADDRESSED NOW. DAVID HALL: OK, FIRST POINT, YOU'RE NOT WRONG. THE LIFE CYCLE FOR MOST OF THOSE ROADS, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE CONCRETE, WILL EXPIRE ROUND ABOUT THE SAME TIME, BUT THE WAY YOU PREVENT THAT IS THROUGH CRACK SEALING PROGRAMS AND THOSE THINGS, WHICH WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT. BUT THANKFULLY WE'VE GOT A FEW YEARS. BUT AS LONG AS WE MAINTAIN A CONSISTENT CRACK SEAL PROGRAM, WE'LL EXTEND THE LIFE OF THOSE. AND SO ADDRESSING THAT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF A FIVE-YEAR PROGRAM, REALISTICALLY, BEYOND CRACK SEALING, WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO GO IN AND DO ANY MAJOR OVERHAULS. I MEAN, THERE'LL BE SOME INTERMITTENT REPAIR HERE AND THERE. YOUR SECOND POINT, I DO THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ADDRESSING ANY DRAINAGE CONCERNS WHEN WE'RE DOING A FULL DEPTH RECLAMATION OR FULL ROAD RECONSTRUCTION. NOW, THAT'S A FUNDING QUESTION. AND SO THEN YOU, AS THE COUNCIL, MAY HAVE TO TELL US, ARE YOU WILLING TO SACRIFICE ONE FOR THE OTHER, AND MAYBE, MAYBE NOT. SO THAT'S GOING TO BE A QUESTION WE HAVE TO COME BACK, AGAIN, PART OF THIS CONVERSATION IS GETTING THIS FEEDBACK FROM YOU. EUGENE ESCOBAR: WOULD THE DRAINAGE COME OUT OF THE WATER FUND AND AS PART OF-- SO THEY SHOULDN'T-- IS THAT A CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT AS WELL? DAVID HALL: THE DRAINAGE WOULD NOT COME OUT OF THE WATER FUND. IT WOULD COME OUT OF THE DRAINAGE FUND. AND AS YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO EXPEDITE OR INCREASE POTENTIAL DRAINAGE FEES. I'M SORRY. SO THAT'S WHERE THAT MONEY WOULD COME FROM. IN FACT, YOU MOST LIKELY COULDN'T EVEN USE DRAINAGE IMPACT FEES FOR THAT IF WE HAD THEM. POTENTIALLY, BUT MOST LIKELY NOT. EUGENE ESCOBAR: BUT CAN WE MAYBE LOOK AT THOSE TWO BEING COMBINED INTO ONE AND SEEING WHAT TIMELINE THAT WOULD BE. SO IF WE NEED TO MAYBE EVEN PUSH 3RD STREET BACK A YEAR? DAVID HALL: WE CAN LOOK AT WHATEVER YOU TELL US TO. EUGENE ESCOBAR: YEAH, AND THEN WE CAN MOVE UP SOME OF THE OTHER PROJECTS UNTIL WE CAN DO THAT. BECAUSE I MEAN, I AGREE WITH MS. TODD, WHERE WATER, IF WE DON'T SOLVE THE WATER ISSUE, WE'RE BACK IN THE SAME SPOT IN 10 YEARS. SO IF WE CAN SOLVE THOSE BOTH ISSUES AT THE SAME TIME, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. DAVID HALL: AND PLEASE NOTE, IF WE'RE DOING ASPHALT ROADS, YOU'LL BE BACK IN 10 YEARS, YOU'LL PROBABLY BE BACK IN FIVE. BUT I'LL DEFER TO THE EXPERTS. I DON'T EVEN KNOW ASPHALT LASTS 10 YEARS ANYMORE. RIFAT ALAM: YEAH, YEAH. SO AS YOU WILL SEE, COUNCIL, SO JUST TO MAKE SURE WE ARE RECAPPING IT CORRECTLY, SO WE WILL BRING BACK OUR REVISED PRESENTATION WITH, IF YOU PREFER TO HAVE 3RD STREET PUSHED [01:10:05] AND HAVE THE COMBINED PCI FOR ALL THE POOR GRADE, WE WOULD DO THAT, AND WE WOULD ALSO PUT IN A LIST OF THE INTERIM MAINTENANCE THAT WE WOULD HAVE PLANNED FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS WITH THAT. SO PART OF THAT DISCUSSION ON CONCRETE VERSUS ASPHALT IS IT'S REALLY WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE, BECAUSE FROM A TECHNICAL STANDPOINT, I KNOW THE GENERAL SENSE IS, YES, CONCRETE STREET HAS A VERY SPECIFIC PURPOSE. IT SERVES THE HEAVY TRAFFIC, RIGHT ASPHALT BY DEFAULT IS NOT BAD. THEY HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC USE FOR LOW TRAFFIC, LOW VOLUME AREAS. AND IT'S ALWAYS BASICALLY A COST-BENEFIT SCENARIO. YOU CAN HAVE A FULL ROAD WHICH IS CURRENTLY ASPHALT RECONSTRUCTED UP TO SUBGRADE WITH ASPHALT. BASICALLY, THE COST WOULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER COMPARED TO A CONCRETE ROAD, BUT THAT WOULD GIVE YOU A LIFE CYCLE OF JUST LIKE MR. HALL WAS SAYING, OF FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS. IN FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO COME BACK AND DO A REPATCH OF THAT ASPHALT SEGMENT. THAT COMBINED COST MIGHT STILL BE LESS THAN DOING A ONE-TIME CONCRETE ROAD. SO SOMETIMES IT'S REALLY A MATTER OF A DECISION ON WHICH DIRECTION WE WANT TO GO. IN OUR REVISED PLAN APPROACH, WE WOULD HAVE BOTH OPTIONS BECAUSE FOR SOME STREETS, IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO REDO IT, JUST KEEPING IT AS ASPHALT FOR THE TIME BEING INSTEAD OF SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY UP FRONT, IF IT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD STREET WITH LOW VOLUME OF TRAFFIC. FOR OTHER STREETS, IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE THIS CONVERTED TO A CONCRETE ROAD. EUGENE ESCOBAR: CAN YOU DEFINE THAT IN YOUR NEXT-- WHEN YOU BRING THIS PRESENTATION BACK, CAN YOU DEFINE IT? THIS IS A HIGH TRAFFIC OR A LOW TRAFFIC, AND THEN THE LIFE CYCLE OF IT AS WELL? RIFAT ALAM: YES, SIR. WE CAN DO THAT. EUGENE ESCOBAR: MS. TODD? CHRISTINA TODD: WITH THAT, SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LIFE CYCLE, CAN YOU, WHEN YOU COME BACK, INCLUDE OBVIOUSLY, WHICH STREETS WOULD BE NEEDING THAT THE STORMWATER SEWERS THAT THEY DON'T EXIST, AND COMPARE IT TO WHAT THE COST WOULD BE FOR THE CITY TO GO BACK THROUGH ALL OF THOSE EASEMENTS THAT WE HAVE FOR DRAINAGE THAT HAVE OVERGROWN AND FIX THEM, SO THAT THEY'RE FUNCTIONING AGAIN, IN COMPARISON TO GOING IN AND DOING THE FULL SEWER SYSTEM. WHAT CAN WE DO? WHAT'S THE BETTER OPTION HERE? SAY WE'RE DOING THE PAVEMENT FOR THE LOWER COST. IT ONLY LASTS A FEW YEARS. CAN WE ALSO GO IN AND FIX ALL OF THOSE DRAINAGE DITCHES TO ADDRESS THE WATER FLOW IN THOSE AREAS, TO HELP MAKE THE ROAD LAST LONGER, IF THAT'S THE ROUTE THAT WE'RE GOING FOR A TEMPORARY FIX? STEVE DEFFIBAUGH: SO, COUNCIL MEMBER, IF I MAY, JUST AS A HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO, IF WE ARE PROPOSING TO CONVERT A ROAD AND UPGRADE IT FROM ASPHALT TO CONCRETE, LET'S SAY IT'S A TWO-LANE ASPHALT ROAD AND WE ARE UPGRADING IT IN A TWO-LANE CONCRETE ROAD AND HAVE THE STANDARD DRAINAGE CARBON GUTTER INSTEAD OF A DITCH. THAT IS ONE OPTION. BUT THAT WOULD BE, JUST TO BE VERY CLEAR, THE DRAINAGE CONCERN THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED IN THE PAST, THE SCOPE OF THAT WOULD FALL EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE DRAINAGE OR STORMWATER MASTER PLAN. SO, YES, LET'S SAY IF COUNCIL DECIDES TO, LET'S SAY, UPGRADE XYZ STREET, WHICH IS CURRENTLY ASPHALT AND DOESN'T HAVE DEFINED DRAINAGE DITCH, WE CANNOT USE THE ROADWAY IMPACT FEE TO UPGRADE THE DRAINAGE OF THAT. SO THEN THIS IS A PATH. IF COUNCIL WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD, WE WOULD WORK AND WE WOULD FIND A MECHANISM. BUT THE IDEA WOULD BE THE CONSTRUCTION AND DESIGN OF THE ROAD ITSELF HAS TO BE FUNDED FROM ROADWAY IMPACT FEE. BUT ANYTHING THAT'S RELATED TO THE DRAINAGE, BASICALLY THE CARBON GUTTER, THAT HAS TO BE FUNDED FROM THE STORMWATER DRAINAGE FUND. BUT THAT WOULD BE PART OF A STANDARD DESIGN. THAT WOULD NOT NECESSARILY ADDRESS THE DRAINAGE PROBLEM OR DRAINAGE NEEDS FOR THAT WATERSHED ITSELF. THAT WOULD BE BASED ON THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WE WOULD GET FROM THE DRAINAGE PROJECT. CHRISTINA TODD: I UNDERSTAND THAT. MY POINT IS WE HAVE AREAS WHERE THEY HAD DRAINAGE DITCHES. THEY ARE NOW OVERGROWN. THE RESULT OF THESE OVERGROWN DITCHES IS THE WATER IS MOST DEFINITELY NOT GOING WHERE IT SHOULD BE. WE ALREADY KNOW, BASED ON THE CURRENT EXISTING PLANS IN PLACE, THAT THOSE SHOULD BE THERE. AND IF WE'RE GOING TO COME IN AND DO A ROAD AND PUT MONEY INTO IT, THEN CAN WE ALSO IDENTIFY IF THIS IS AN AREA THAT WOULD NEED SOMETHING ADDRESSED. I UNDERSTAND THE FUNDING WOULD HAVE TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE [01:15:02] ELSE, BUT WHEN WE ARE MAKING A DECISION, WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO HAVE TUNNEL VISION AND LOOK AT ONE THING WHEN THERE'S MULTIPLE PROBLEMS. IF WE'RE COMING IN AND SAYING WE'RE DOING A ROAD, WHAT ELSE IS NEEDED THERE. SO WE CAN BE LIKE, OK, THESE ARE THE OTHER COSTS THAT MAY HAVE TO HAPPEN WITH THIS PROJECT. AND WE START LOOKING FOR THE FUNDING IN OTHER PLACES, BE IT GRANT MONEY, BE IT SOMEWHERE FROM THE GENERAL FUND OR SOMETHING. BUT WE CANNOT CONTINUE DOWN THIS PATH WHERE ALL WE DO IS LOOK AT ONE PART, KNOWING WE HAVE ANOTHER MASSIVE PROBLEM, AND WE'RE JUST LIKE, WE'RE GOING TO PUT THAT UNDER THE RUG AND COME BACK LATER. THAT'S HOW WE ENDED UP WHERE WE ARE. DAVID HALL: COUNCILWOMAN, YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN. I THINK RIFAT MENTIONED EARLIER TRYING TO TAKE A HOLISTIC APPROACH, AND SO THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO BE PATIENT, RIGHT? HERE'S THE CHALLENGE. I'M GOING TO JUST SAY THIS. THERE'S THIS NEED TO FIX THE ROADS QUICKLY, BUT THE TYPE OF ANALYSIS THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR REQUIRES SOME TIME. IT'S NOT WRONG TO ASK FOR IT, BECAUSE THAT ANALYSIS REQUIRES HIM LOOKING AT THE ROAD, COMPARING THE COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF CONCRETE AND ASPHALT, LOOKING AT DRAINAGE APPARATUS. IF HE'S GOING CONCRETE TO HIS POINT, STANDARD DESIGN REQUIRES THAT YOU PUT CURB AND GUTTER AND THAT'S GOING TO RAISE THE COST EXPONENTIALLY. BUT TO YOUR POINT, IF THERE'S AN EXISTING DRAINAGE DITCH, CAN YOU DO SOME DREDGING AND CULVERT RECONDITIONING? WHAT'S THE COST THERE? BUT ALL OF THIS ANALYSIS HAS TO BE DONE AND IT TAKES TIME. AND THEN YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT., BECAUSE TO COME TO YOU AND GIVE YOU THIS PLAN OF THESE THINGS AND THESE PROBLEMS WITHOUT A SOLUTION IS ALMOST USELESS. AND PART OF ANY CONVERSATION ABOUT THE ROADS AND THE DRAINAGE INVOLVES MONEY. AND SO ALL I'M SAYING TO YOU IS WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IS COMPLETELY REASONABLE. BUT THE COUNCIL THEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE US THE GRACE OF A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO ALLOW HIM, CONSULTANTS AND STAFF, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE MORE THAN A MONTH. AND SO I JUST WANT TO ALWAYS RIGHTSIZE THE EXPECTATIONS. AND IT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T GO OUT AND CONTINUE TO DO INTERMITTENT MAINTENANCE, MUCH LIKE WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT STOPS. IT JUST MEANS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THIS LARGER MAINTENANCE PROGRAM-- AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR-- THEN WE'RE GOING TO NEED A LITTLE MORE TIME. AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M BEING CLEAR AND TRANSPARENT WITH YOU. EUGENE ESCOBAR: YEAH, I AGREE WITH MS. TODD ON THAT ASPECT OF IF WE'RE GOING TO GO IN. EVEN IF IT'S JUST THE FOUR ROADS FOR THE FIRST YEAR, LET'S HAVE A FULL ANALYSIS ON THOSE FOUR ROADS BEFORE WE SUGGEST THAT THESE ARE THE ROADS, BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE-- I MEAN, WE HAVE THE COST. IT MIGHT ONLY BE TWO ROADS A YEAR, BUT AT LEAST WE CAN KNOW WHAT IT WOULD TAKE OR COME UP WITH ANOTHER PLAN TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE OTHER ISSUES, ESPECIALLY WE'RE LOOKING AT THE ROAD ALREADY. SO I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, ESPECIALLY FOR OUR DOWNTOWN AREA THAT HAS THE MOST DRAINAGE ISSUES AT THIS TIME. DAVID HALL: SO LET ME ASK THIS FOR CLARITY, SO THAT WE AT LEAST LEAVE HERE WITH SOME SENSE OF DIRECTION SO WE CAN COME BACK WITH SOMETHING ACTIONABLE FOR YOU. HE'S GOT THESE FOUR ROADS LISTED. ARE YOU GENERALLY OK WITH THAT BEING THE STARTING POINT FOR US? EUGENE ESCOBAR: ME PERSONALLY, I THINK THE FAIL ROADS SHOULD BE A STARTING POINT, BUT JUST BECAUSE THEY FAILED ALREADY. BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THE WHOLE NORTH 3RD STREET, I THINK DRAINAGE, ALL THAT STUFF, NEEDS TO BE TAKEN INTO FACTOR TOO. DAVID HALL: ABSOLUTELY. SO WE'RE GOING TO COME BACK WITH, AGAIN, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, ALL OF YOU ARE SAYING AND IT'S REASONABLE, REALLY A WHOLE STREETS PROGRAM THEY SOMETIMES CALL IT. WE'LL COME BACK WITH THAT FOR THE FIRST FOUR, BECAUSE WE CAN DO THAT A LOT FASTER THAN THE WHOLE PROGRAM. BUT ARE WE IN AGREEMENT, AS A COUNCIL, ARE YOU IN AGREEMENT THAT THAT FIRST FOUR IS THE FIRST FOUR? EUGENE ESCOBAR: I'LL LET COUNSEL ANSWER THAT. BRYAN WASHINGTON: I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THESE FIRST FOUR. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE BRING BACK HAS THE MAINTENANCE PLAN FOR THE REMAINING AS WELL. BECAUSE FOR A LOT OF US, JUST WHAT WE KNOW OF THESE, BECAUSE WE KNOW THESE ROADS, BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN SEVERAL OF THEM FOR QUITE A WHILE AS BEING ON THE FAIL LIST, EVEN THOUGH IT WASN'T-- WE DIDN'T HAVE THE LIST AT THE TIME. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE BRING BACK, WE HAVE THE MAINTENANCE PLAN AS WELL. BUT I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THESE FOUR. JAISEN RUTLEDGE: I HAVE NO CONCERNS WITH THE FOUR LISTED AS WELL. I WOULD AGREE WITH COUNCILMAN WASHINGTON AS LONG AS WE COME BACK WITH THE TEMPORARY MAINTENANCE INCLUDED. IF THIS IS THE FOUR THAT WE'RE GOING TO START WITH, AND WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT DRAINAGE FOR THESE FOUR ALONG COLLECTIVELY, THEN I'M FINE WITH THAT. EUGENE ESCOBAR: MS. TODD? CHRISTINA TODD: I AGREE. I KNOW VERY WELL HOW THIS AREA IS. I LIVE OVER THERE. BUT I'M JUST GOING TO EMPHASIZE AGAIN THAT DRAINAGE IS VERY IMPORTANT. ALL OF THAT GOES RIGHT INTO TICKEY CREEK THROUGH THE KINGSBRIDGE AREA INTO THE FLOODPLAIN. SO IT'S NOT FUNCTIONING PROPERLY. IT NEEDS TO BE FUNCTIONING. MY QUESTION ALSO ON GREENFIELD ACRES, [01:20:03] I KNOW THAT WE'RE DOING SOMETHING SMALL NOW AND THE BIG PROJECT IS LATER. ARE YOU ADDRESSING THE DAMAGED CULVERT OVER THERE NOW OR LATER? RIFAT ALAM: SO THE SCOPE FOR GREENFIELD RIGHT NOW IS JUST REPLACING AND REMOVING THE ASPHALT, JUST TO PROVIDE SOME DRIVING RELIEF. AND I DON'T HAVE THAT PICTURE. BUT WHEN WE RECEIVED THAT CONCERN, WE ENGAGED OUR TEAM IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE SOME OF THE POTHOLES THAT GREENFIELD HAD THAT WAS THE SIZE OF MY ENTIRE FEET COULD WENT INTO IT. SO THAT'S THE REASON WE DID NOT WAIT FOR THE BIG PROJECTS TO COME IN, AND WE MOBILIZED IMMEDIATELY. BUT THE CULVERT ITSELF, THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE BIG CONSTRUCTION PROJECT. CHRISTINA TODD: I APPRECIATE THAT BECAUSE I ACTUALLY HAD SAT DOWN WITH OUR ENGINEERS AND FORMER STAFF AND DISCUSSED THAT ROAD REALLY EARLY IN MY TERM. SO IT'S LIKE A HUGE RELIEF TO SEE STAFF NOW LOOKING AT IT AND TRYING TO FIND A SOLUTION FOR THAT AREA. EUGENE ESCOBAR: ALL RIGHT. I THINK WE HAVE DIRECTION ON THIS, MR. DEFFINBAUGH IS GOING TO ADD ANYTHING TO IT. BUT I THINK THAT WE HAVE THAT DIRECTION MOVING FORWARD. RIFAT ALAM: ALL RIGHT. EUGENE ESCOBAR: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. RIFAT ALAM: THANK YOU. EUGENE ESCOBAR: ALL RIGHT I'M GOING TO SKIP ITEMS D, E, AND GO TO F, ADJOURNMENT. AT THIS TIME, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. BRYAN WASHINGTON: YOUR HONOR, I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION TO ADJOURN. EUGENE ESCOBAR: I'LL SECOND. ALL RIGHT, MR. RUTLEDGE SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: AYE EUGENE ESCOBAR: ANY NAYS? ALL RIGHT. THE TIME IS 7:23. THIS WILL START OUR SPECIAL-- * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.